RE: Distributor recap long read

[Earl Helm <earlh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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 Schuyler,

I have been following this with some interest. So if the car runs good
without the Vacuum advance, great. Don't sweat
it. I am going to suggest a different way of setting the initial advance
that I feel you should try. Throw your timing
light away and get a vacuum gage. Set it for maximum vacuum at idle and see
how it runs. Note, if you change your
carb idle settings, you need to reset your timing via the max vacuum. Then
go to the below instructions

Also try this with your Vacuum advance : Hook up your Vacuum Advance to
FULL MANIFOLD vacuum, which is how I prefer to
use vacuum advance (street cars only). Some may disagree, but it works for
me! To do full manifold mandates an adjustable 
vacuum canister on the distributor ( Which you should have). The way this
system works is when you smash the throttle and
vacuum levels go to atmospheric the vacuum advance is stopped. No ping, no
excess unneeded timing that is only good for 
street car efficiency anyway. If you still get a ping under partial
throttle, start backing your vacuum advance down until
it stops. Having vacuum advance at partial throttle can be an advantage for
street driving, but it has to be set so
that it dose not add to total timing at full throttle. 

Earl


Below are some of the posts that helped with my decision to abandon my=20
vacuum advance, except the 4 second flat response just threw me for a=20
loop?
the info on there site is what got me started thinking that maybe I=20 will
be better off without the vacuum advance and order one of their=20 stage 2
distributors.
So, I emailed them the specs. of my set up. also posted below, and they=20
say I need a stage one distributor which has the vacuum adv.? I don't=20
want to go back to the vacuum adv.? also looking at my cam specs on my card
and=20 comparing them to the stock cam specs in the FSM they give one #
248=20 degrees for both intake and exhaust how do I compare that to the 4
#'s for=20 duration on my cam card? the biggest one is 274 degrees. and my
overlap=20 is 52 degrees compared to the stock overlap of 30 degrees. Gary
P.'s stroker cam 290=20 degrees, all are on 110 degree lobe centers. Looking
at these #'s I'm=20 not so sure I can call my cam a mild cam? how about a
1/2 cam 3/4 cam? (o: At what=20 point does the cam start affecting the
vacuum advance no vacuum advance=20 issue?
I'd like to get a timing tape and see if I can dial in my distributor a=20
little better does any one know what numbers I should go for? Am I the=20
only one running a Poly with no vacuum advance? My Poly's not perfect but
I=20 think it really likes the vacuum advance eliminated. I really pushed
it=20 hard on the weekend trip with the wagon full, my family and our
excessive amounts=20 of luggage the Poly pulled us over the grades and
passes that normally=20 gave me a little trouble, an annoying slight ping at
part throttle, now there's=20 no ping no backing down... no one is gunna
pass me on the hill.
please read the posts and I would like to hear any comments on my Poly=20
engines set up so far, or any one else who has tried something similar.
I feel like I'm working in the dark here so if anyone can shed some=20
light, feel free to jump in any where along the threads.
and to see pics and read more about my car click on the link below my=20
name.
thanks
Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>

Hey,
Sorry I've been out of town.
=A0
You need a Stage 1 distributor, FBO Ignition Kit and a intake manifold=20
designed more for your engine profile, your engine is never going to be=20
happy with that single plain.
=A0
Stage 1 Distributor=A0 $125.00
FBO A-688 Ignition Kit...$129.00
=A0
That should get you all dialed in.
-----Original Message-----


Car make- Dodge Dart 440 wagon
  Car year- 1962
  Weight with driver- 3800 lb.-3900 lb.
  Engine size- Poly 318
  Approx HP and Tork- not sure was hoping for 300 HP and more in tork
  Tranny type - torqueflite 727
  Rear end ratio 3.31
Intake Manifold type- Weiand single plane 4bbl
  Carburetor- Carter AFB competition series
  Fuel Pump Size and type- stock
  Current distributor..- Mopar electronic kit with orange box
  Current initial timing- 5 to 7 degrees
  Current max timing- not sure
  Head type and valve size- Poly head  bit of port and polish on the=20
exhaust, and shaved 030, with  new seals and springs
  Cam duration at 50
  Lobe Centerline-110 degree
  Cam lift- 445
  Cam brand- regrind - The cam specifications are:
  =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0  =A0dur.=A0dur.=A0@=A0.050=A0lift... cl=
earance
   intake....270=A0206............=A0445...=A0018
   exhaust=A0274=A0212............=A0445...=A0018
   110 degree LC
  Solid lifter type
Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>

Well if it is running fine with it set where it should be than it is=20
irrelavnat. Obviously it is ok however since you asked, If the timing chain
was loose and jumped  to get the car to run again=20 you would have to
advance the dist a whole lot for it to run descent.=20= =20 Typicaqlly +10
to 16 degrees.
but it sounds like all is new .
With a hi perf cam  a modified advance curve is required. I di not know=20
you had a hot cam in it.
i cant find the specs in you email but if it is working good  why=20 worry.
Just enjoy it Don Author of Return to Deutschland (True Adventure) Old
Reliable (Mopar) http://stores.ebay.ca/Don-Dulmage-Enterprises

Don, thanks for coming out on the limb here. I just got back from a=20
weekend trip with the wagon fully loaded. my wife and our 6 yr. old=20
daughter and the ridiculous amount of stuff we load up the wagon with for
the trip. now, not having=20 a timing tape on the dampner I don't now for
sure what my setting=20 really was and after the Mods what it's soposed to
be? so as Joe suggested, I turned it back to 10=20 degrees for the trip and
it ran great ! the old 62 wagon pulled just=20 fine up and over the highway
hills and passes with no ping and the feel of some definite restored
power.=20 That being said, I am wondering what or why the 318 needs a
timing=20 chain if it has to have 17 degrees to run decent with a stock
cam.=20 although my cam is also a regrind, the specs of the build on the
link=20 below, has my cam specs and some other info if you could be so
gracious to make a comment as anything would be a help, for=20 I'm out here
on the limb with not much but a somewhat better running=20 Poly.
thanks Schuyler

Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>



coool, I guess I did something right the Poly runs better then ever=20 with
the vacuum arm disabled and advance plate and breaker plate as=20 one.
the timing light shows about 17 degrees of advance at Idle not sure=20 what
the total is but I drove it around as fast as I could on my test=20 ride
with no ping or detonation just some noticable improved performance now=20
if I just new more about what I'm doing it might run even better.
gonna load up the wagon and take it on the highway for a cruise. man, I=20
think this mod really worked!
Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>

>> After re-reading your last, you may want to check between the 2=20 
>> plates and confirm the brass buttons are in place and one isn't=20 
>> missing or severly worn.=A0 This would cause the plate to move up 
>> and=
=20
>> down as well as circular.=A0 There should be 3 tiny phillips screws 
>> on=
=20
>> the back of the static plate.=A0 These go through the static plate 
>> and=
=20
>> screw into the brass buttons between the static and advance=20 
>> plates.=A0The advance plate rides on these buttons.=A0I just went out 
>> an=
d=20
>> tried to move my advance plate up and down and it's pretty 
>> solid.=A0=20 I=A0see what you mean about the gap changing in an 
>> electronic=20 distributor, but I don't have one to pull apart and 
>> check to see if=20 it has the same brass button setup as the points 
>> type.=A0 My shop=20 manual doesn't give names to these "buttons", nor 
>> does it even show=20 them in diagrams. Weird....=A0=A0=A0 Joe

Joe, thanks for all the info,... the thing is , my distributor is the=20
mopar Electronic distrib. there's no points just a magnetic pick-up and=20
reluctor  the magnetic pickup is mounted on the vacuum advance plate which
is on a swivel so the=20 vacuum arm can advance or rotate the plate and
magnetic pick-up. the=20 problem is the movement changes the gap between the
reluctor and pick-up and can be a little=20 wobbly. anyway I read on that 4
seconds flat site that one of the=20 things they do to the none vacuum
advance dist. is weld the plates together so they won't move?=20 now moving
down below the breaker plate, the mechanical advance is the=20 same as a
points style except,...
apparently the newer distributors are like your invention and have=20 these
adjusting screws built in to the advance mechanism!?... seems no=20 matter
what you can think of someone else will have also... (o: anyway if this
doesn't=20 work I'll just order one of there's=20=20
<http://www.4secondsflat.com/a688specs.html>

I pulled the distributor and disabled the vacuum advance and JB welded=20
the wobbly vacuum advance plate to the breaker plate. turns out the=20
mechanical advance is the adjustable type, with a torks screw in each slot
mechenism, the=20 springs look pretty light weight and are pink if that
means any thing?=20 So my next question is what should I set my timing at
when I stick it back in and put the=20 timing light on it?
thanks again for any help
Schuyler
Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>


> From: Schuyler Wrobel <schuyler62@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: March 18, 2005 11:09:36 PM PST
> To: Joeydahook9@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Distributor
>
> Joe,
> yes those buttons are in place they just seem to give the plate=20 
> marginal support not very good when the plate is advanced. I think=20 
> there is a star shaped spring clip type thing that helps hold it 
> together also. there's also suposed to=20 be a little clip for the 
> wires to sit in, just a hole in the plate=20 where that clip should be 
> on mine, one of those buttons almost makes=20 it's way in there maybe 
> getting hung up on the edge hard to say? I=20 still can't believe they 
> stoll your idea with the adjustable=20 mechanical advance here's 
> another post from my archive that mentions=20 this.
>
>
> Don and all,
> Well I opened up the distributor in order to modify it as per the "Old 
> Reliable, Mission Ignition" chapter and low and behold the distributor 
> has an adjustable mechanical advance.  There are two screws that can 
> be loosened and a plate turned to limit the amount of mechanical advance.
>
> The plate was set for the full travel and I adjusted it to reduce the 
> amount of travel by about 1/3.  Does that sound about right?  Also, 
> there were two fairly small springs in there, but since the weights 
> looked smaller too I left them alone.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Ken
>
> here's another interesting post from Don D.
>
> Dist mods still need to be done whaether you elect to use the 
> vacuum=20 advance or not.. It can be done either way but the bottom 
> line is you=20 need |(with anything other than a very mild cam) 34 to 
> 36 degrees=20 total advance and you need it earlier with a cam.
> A 400hp 440 would be hard to do. A bone stock one with a set of=20 
> headers would be already there. (375 + 25 HP) and the combo could 
> use=20 a stock distributor as delivered from the factory.
> The addition of a good intake (IE Performer RPM) would add easily=20 
> anothe 25 HP and that would ot affect advance requiremnets. A cam=20 
> under 500 lift would not normaly have enough Duration to require 
> full=20 distributor mods (but not always) but would benifit from a 
> quicker=20 advance curve.
> Anything past that will really wake up with distributor mods.
> So why not tell us what cam you have and we could give a better answer.
> Any cam other than stock or an RV cam requires more intial without=20 
> adding more total. This really really wakes up the engine , makes 
> it=20 easier to drive and puts the bottom end back in the engines 
> power=20 range.
> I hope this helps. Still the decision is yours. If you are happy 
> with=20 your idle quality, your bottom end performance and general 
> perfomance=20 then that is fine . However if it wants to stall when in 
> gear and you=20 have to keep giving it gas to keep it running and it 
> is a dog out of=20 the hole to about 2000 to2500 RPm then do the
dstributor.
> Don
> Author of
> Return to Deutschland (True Adventure) Old Reliable (Mopar) Schuyler 
> 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318  
> <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>
> On Mar 18, 2005, at 10:34 PM, Joeydahook9@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
>>
>>

--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Erase wrinkles without Botox! Nexiderm SP is clinically proven to=20 reduce
wrinkles by 68% Click here to start your free trial today.
=
caadfBNbV1hOjf/Nexiderm
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Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

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