Re: Mopar VS. GTO

[Bill Watson <wwatson6@xxxxxxx>]

Actually, the Sport Fury, Chevrolet Impala S.S. and Ford Galaxie 500 XL
models were NOT trim packages.  They were full-fledged series and could be
identified by the VIN.

In 1964, the Fury V8 was "33" on the VIN while the Sport Fury was "34".
Similarly, the Impala V8 was "418" while the Impala S.S. was "419" and over
at Ford the Galaxie 500 V8 models were  62 through 66 on the VIN while the
Galaxie 500 XL was either 60 or 68.

The 1964 and 1965  GTO, through, WAS a trim package.  It could not be
identified by the VIN.  And it was not available on the cheapest Tempest
series, but only on the upscale Tempest LeMans, which weighed 45 lbs more
than the base Tempest in coupe form.   The GTO package added 131 lbs. on top
of that.

The VIN on the 1964 Pontiac Tempest V8 coupe started with "804", the Custom
V8 with "814", and the LeMans was "824".  As the 1964 GTO was an option
package on the LeMans, the GTO VIN started with "824".

And the package was $361 on the LeMans coupe, pushing the price from $2,491
to $2,852.   A Fury V8 hardtop started at $2,706 while the Sport Fury was
$2,864..  The GTO was actually offered to circumvent the restriction on
using big engines in the intermediate cars by offering the package only on
the highest priced series, in this case the LeMans.   Thus the GTO was not
offered in the lightest intermediate Pontiac body, but the heaviest.  The
GTO came with a 389-cid V8, (10.75:1 CR, 4-bbl carb with 325-bhp or
Tri-Power for 348-bhp), 3-speed manual, 4-speed Muncie transmission or
Hydramatic, simulated engine-turned aluminum dash panel inserts, simulated
hood scoops, and variouse badging and emblems.

The 1964 GTO package, then, was not much different from the 1963 Super Lark
package.  Except for the fact that the GTO was available only on the top
line LeMans while the Super Lark could be had on the lowly Regal series,
middle Custom, sporty Daytona or top line Cruiser.  The Super Lark also had
no special exterior markings or badging, save for the "R" engine emblems.
Similarly, the Max Wedge engines were available on the cheapest and lightest
Plymouths and Dodges, thus truly offering a big engine in a light weight,
stripped down body.

It was not until 1966 that the GTO became a full series and not an option
package on the LeMans.   Plymouth Belvedere GTX and Dodge Coronet R/T
appeared in 1967, but both truly put the muscle car into the hands of the
car buying public in 1968 with the Road Runner and Super Bee.   The 1968 GTX
started at $3,329 while the Road Runner was at $2,870.   The 1968 GTO was at
$3,101.  For 1969 the GTO dropped almost $300 in price to $2,831 and the
Judge was introduced to fill the spot where the GTO used to be for $3,161.

The GTO became an option package on the LeMans again for 1972 and hung
around through 1974.

And although the Chrysler 300 letter series may have been luxury cars, do
not write off the 1956-58 Plymouth Fury.   The 1958 Impala and the later
Impala S.S. and Galaxie 500 XL offerings were nothing but copies of the
Fury.   Powerful engines in the smallest bodies offered (full-size bodies in
the 1960's, granted).    Prior to 1960 the full-size Plymouths and Chevs
were the smallest Chrysler and GM had in North America.

Bill
Vancouver, BC



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Jacobsma" <big_jake57@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:32 PM
Subject: Mopar VS. GTO


>
> I posted about this subject a couple days ago, but seems like I got
> booted by Topica (again), so I dont think it made it.
> Anyway, here's why I've lost this argument for the last 35 years.
> According to the Auto Magazines, and later, the automotive shows on TV,
> and a couple of books about cars of the '60's I have somewhere,  the GTO
> gets the credit because it was the first car to be a performance only
> model.  The Sport Furys, Dodge 500s Cheby SS's and Ford 500's were TRIM
> packages.  All were available with everything from 6 cylinders, to the
> biggest V8's each company made.  Although the GTO was obviously built
> from the LeMans, and the LeMans could be had with a big engine, the GTO
> only came with a performance engine, in a basically light weight
> stripped down body.  That didnt happen to Mopar till the GTX and RT.  My
> thinking of the 300 being a performance only model was met by, "that was
> a performance luxury car".  Anyway, the criteria seems to be, midsize,
> lightweight, 2dr, performance engine only model.  Thats where the GTO
> gets the credit.
> So maybe our Mopars weren't the first muscle cars per say, but they may
> very well have been the first cars with real muscle, when you look at
> the 62 Maxies, the 64 Hemi's, and the 65 Street Hemi.  Not to mention
> all the "regular" big blocks. Not even the drag racers from the early
> 60's will deny that.  Many brand X racers switched in the 62 to 64 era.
> (Sox & Martin)
> Someone mentioned the 383 Fury against the GTO being a good race.  It
> was.  When I was 16 I got my first 63 Fury 383 auto.  A rival of mine
> from a nearby town had a 64 GTO.  It WAS a good race, but in several
> matchups, the closest he ever got was my back bumper.
> That's just my 2 cents worth.  Your mileage may vary....
>
>


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