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Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-24 11:07 AM (#635344)
Subject: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I purchased this car yesterday, along with a '98 Corvette for a friend of mine. The Corvette will end up being a lot cheaper and is fun to drive right away. This one will need quite a bit of attention as the front floors are rusted out and it took a pretty hard hit on the left rear quarter. It's also missing quite a few parts. Most of them I already have, but I'll be searching for the Plymouth specific stuff that I need. Fortunately, John at BigM had a rear window for me and brought it down to me with the car. Initially, I plan to keep this car with patina on it. No paint for quite a while. That will reduce the time needed to get it going and will give it a unique look that I think I will like. Unfortunately, it looks like the front fenders have been replaced so they don't have the same look to them. I'll try to fake it on there.

It's pretty well optioned with power steering, power brakes, 4bbl dual exhaust power pak, deluxe steering wheel & fender ornaments (that are missing). I'm thinking of a good jig to build that I can use to pound on the upper part of the fin from inside the trunk. Maybe a heavy bar with a rotating flat on the end of it? If I can get the engine to turn, I'll try to get it running. Otherwise, I'll pull it and probably replace it with a Chrysler hemi. First thing is to clean it up, list all the parts I need to find, and get the brakes working.

Edited by Powerflite 2024-05-24 11:14 AM




(57Belv RF AsIs.jpg)



(57Belv RR AsIs.jpg)



(57Belv Dash AsIs.jpg)



(57Belv Engine AsIs.jpg)



(57Belv Body Tag AsIs.jpg)



(57Belv LR Hit AsIs.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv RF AsIs.jpg (163KB - 19 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv RR AsIs.jpg (236KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv Dash AsIs.jpg (261KB - 23 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv Engine AsIs.jpg (197KB - 21 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv Body Tag AsIs.jpg (172KB - 20 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv LR Hit AsIs.jpg (217KB - 20 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2024-05-24 11:22 AM (#635346 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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ClassicCars
Posted 2024-05-24 12:05 PM (#635348 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Great looking project!!! I just bought my 1959 Dodge Coronet from John at Big M Auto. Great guy to deal with and his property is amazing. My daughter and I went up to look at the car and had a wonderful time looking around his car yard. So many potential projects!!! Keep us updated on your progress!!
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frwl
Posted 2024-05-24 3:18 PM (#635353 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Wasn't a wide roof moulding the standard on Belvederes? (besides the drip rail moulding)
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2024-05-24 4:08 PM (#635355 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Awesome, Nathan!  I'm glad to see you are showing some love for those 122's

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22mafeja
Posted 2024-05-24 9:45 PM (#635364 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		Amazing...the left rear quarter will be interesting to get decent. I am sure you look forward to that .
I am happy to see you taking on another stray cat.
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-25 6:22 PM (#635376 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		Thanks guys, I think I have enough to keep me busy beyond my death date now. Maybe He'll let me live longer so I can finish them all.

Yeah, Ralf, any advice you have to get it done will be appreciated. I know what to do to get it started, but pushing that upper section in place is going to be a challenge for sure.
Igor, I'm not sure, but this car does have the wide moldings.

I mounted the front bumper onto the car, but it needs adjusting to sit properly. The car is missing the bottom section of the rear seat. I have an extra upper section, but I don't think I have an extra bottom section. So another trip to BigM will likely be in order. I cleaned out the loads of dirt, broken glass, debri and garbage out of the car to see what I am working with. The top section of the floor is pretty much all junk. Only the tunnel can remain. I don't want to piece something that big together so I may use one of my parts car floors on it to get it done much faster.

From what I can see of the rear door panel remains, the top section was red with a silver mylar insert below it. The middle section at the arm rest is black, and the bottom is red. It's good to document what I have so I don't forget later.



(57Belv Rear Door Panel.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Rear Door Panel.jpg (179KB - 20 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-05-26 12:39 AM (#635379 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		I think you may have to sacrifice the outer rear part of the quarter..
I think I would form a 5mm steel plate piece as close to the correct shape of the quarter skin first. All the way up to the edge of the fin.
Then put it inside the quarter and attach it with a couple of small screws through the quarter.
One or two bigger holes have to be drilled through the quarter and 5mm "tool" so you can attach a chain to it on the outside.
Then you use a tractor or truck/car to pull(jerk) a little and then a little more etc. This can`t be done unless the quarter is secured to the rest of the body..
I think it would destroy the trunk side of the fin if you start pressing.
This might not work at all for you but has worked for me depending on the damage.
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mstrug
Posted 2024-05-26 10:27 AM (#635381 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)		I like it! I bet a short trip to a body shop to power pull that fender out is what is needed. You can do the rest! Those door panels/rear panels will be fun! Are you going to paint it red and white? Marc from Newark.
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-26 12:50 PM (#635387 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		Thanks for the tips. I'm going to attempt to do this myself at first. I don't want to paint this car, except to apply flat white to the front fenders and roof, and then sand it back down to give it a weathered look. For that reason, I don't want a lot of welding, cutting or other body work done to it if I can help it. I would be tempted to just leave it and let the dent be a part of it's character, but it is bent in too far to be practical. I do want the trunk lid to work and seal eventually. I tried placing a 4x4 wood block against the lower section, at the main hit and whacked it with a 2lb sledge a couple of times. No dice. It's going to take a lot more force than that. Next, I'll try the same thing with a long 10lb sledge once I can figure out how to stand up there in position without falling.

I crawled into the trunk and removed the latch plate so I could open the trunk. Someone really wanted to get in there as he drilled a hole through the trunk emblem and whacked a hole through the latch & mount. I had to cut the head off the upper screw as I couldn't even get it out with torch heat. It probably got whacked when the holes were made. I'll try to make a clean cut and screw it out from behind - maybe.



(57Belv Trunk Hole.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Trunk Hole.jpg (213KB - 20 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-26 1:03 PM (#635388 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		Aftermath of all the dirt and broken glass that came out of the car. I filled my large garbage bin almost full with it along with the rotten seat material. The rockers are still filled to the brim with dirt & broken glass. If/when I work on the rockers, I'll get it out then. The seat had a red aftermarket cover on it that I removed. Under it, was one piece of the original black seat fabric. So this was it's original color scheme. The trunk had an original "dotted" trunk mat in terrible shape as well.

I easily popped out the large dent in the driver's door. It still has a bunch of smaller dents in it that I will make an attempt at removing. The trunk floor is better than I expected. The front section of it was rusted in the flat areas, but all the hard to reproduce contours were fine, and the back half was actually pretty decent.

Edited by Powerflite 2024-05-26 1:08 PM




(57Belv Debri Aftermath.jpg)



(57Belv Fabrics.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Debri Aftermath.jpg (195KB - 22 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv Fabrics.jpg (200KB - 19 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2024-05-26 1:22 PM (#635389 - in reply to #635388)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Three things:

1. In the past (when I was young (54 years ago to be exact), I jacked out damage in my 55 Dodge's trunk (somebody (idiot) rear-ended me) with a farm style Jack-all and some strategically placed 2 x 4s. Now a
days I would consider using something like this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Torin-Portable-Hydraulic-Ram-10T/dp/B09Z93ZK14...



2. If you can figure out the interior code from the body tag, I am guessing that Igor ("frwl") will have photos, etc. of what the interior looked like. (If you don't have a 57 Plymouth dealer book)

3. Fenders always fade differently than the body because the fenders were painted in a different shop than the body. Not sure if they even got the same primer/paint/baking process as the body.

Good luck with this project.




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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-26 11:37 PM (#635397 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		1. Dave, in order to use one of those rams, you need a solid anchor point to push against. I don't want to push against any other body panel with that much force. The only way I can see how to use something like that is to cut a large hole in the floor and weld a very solid mount to the top of the frame to push against. I am considering that as an option, but it isn't my first choice due to all the modifications that are required to make it happen, and I don't think the frame is strong enough in the back end to take that much side force. I don't think the Plymouth frame is boxed in all the way to the back of the car, so I would have to do that before I even attempt to try this. So I'm going to try the large sledge hammer first since that's a much less problematic solution. Outside of that, I would likely have to pull on it from the outside with a hand-made buck like Ralf suggested.

2. The body tag on these are quite useless. It just tells you the body code (2dr hardtop) and Evansville, Illinois assembly plant, similar to the '56-'57 Fury body tag.

3. The fenders are obviously from a different car as they don't have the trim holes in them and never had a white undercoat on them.
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-05-27 1:42 AM (#635399 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		Yes the sledge isn`t working always.
If you do like I described do not just pull , you have to leave a slack in the pulling chain so you get a yank when you take off with whatever you sit in.
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56D500boy
Posted 2024-05-27 9:41 AM (#635400 - in reply to #635397)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Powerflite - 2024-05-26 8:37 PM

1. Dave, in order to use one of those rams, you need a solid anchor point to push against. I don't want to push against any other body panel with that much force.
.


Nathan: My suggestion regarding the Port-a-Power comes from watching DD Speedshop and specifically this video starting at 32:20 wherein
Dan and his dad "Mur" are pushing out some kinks in a rear quarter of a 64 Chevy II. They placed the base of the ram against the trunk latch structure.

Otherwise, I would think that you could spread the force out on the ram base end with 2 x 4 and 4 x 4 lumber.

This (32:20):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MeqxRWuQGc

I am sure that Igor will have some 57 Plymouth intierior examples

I missed the fact that the front fenders don't have any trim holes, so yes, they came from another car.

PS: Thanks for participating in that other thread (maybe your suggestion will get some action)



Edited by 56D500boy 2024-05-27 1:36 PM
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frwl
Posted 2024-05-27 3:06 PM (#635401 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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This is trim code 346:
BOLSTER: Red Velva-Grain Vinyl
SEAT: Black Flight Weave Metallic-Threaded Fabric
DOOR PANELS: Red Vinyl Trim with Special Silver Mylar Inserts



(Belvedere Upholstery.JPG)



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Attachments Belvedere Upholstery.JPG (140KB - 21 downloads)
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frwl
Posted 2024-05-27 3:09 PM (#635402 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Can't find the trim code 346 pictures;
Here the trim code 343 with same pattern except the colour:



(1.JPG)



(2.JPG)



(3.JPG)



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Attachments 1.JPG (125KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments 2.JPG (123KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments 3.JPG (138KB - 18 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2024-05-27 4:47 PM (#635405 - in reply to #635402)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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The 346 interior might be the one in this 58 Plymouth brochure photo:

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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-27 6:11 PM (#635407 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I can't think of better way to spend Memorial Day than to smack a Christine with a sledge hammer. Where's Buddy when you need him?

It turns out that I don't own a 10lb sledge like I thought I had. But I do have this 7lb log splitter with a hammer end on it, so I used that instead to smack against the block of wood. It worked out quite well. I was able to move the lower panel out mostly to where it needed to be. But the panel was separating from the inner section and the upper section wasn't really moving; so I didn't continue much further. But that gives me an idea. I can separate the inner panel from the outer one and straighten them separately, with the inner panel off the car. I can separate it from the factory lead seams, but not sure if that's a good idea or not as I don't work with lead. But I guess I will give it a try.

Thanks for the interior pics and trim code, Igor. The larger pattern on the material looks really cool! I hope SMS can pull through with this stuff.




(57Belv Sledge Hammering.jpg)



(57Belv Initial Quarter Smack Results.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Sledge Hammering.jpg (245KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv Initial Quarter Smack Results.jpg (127KB - 19 downloads)
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mikes2nd
Posted 2024-05-27 10:40 PM (#635410 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Use the old board up against the inside of the hit and then another 2 by 4 in the center. of that board.. small sledge... push it out from the center of the hit... maybe a full size sledge is going to be needed...

 

lol yeah looks like the big hammer was needed

 



Edited by mikes2nd 2024-05-27 10:42 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-28 12:05 AM (#635412 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I had to really swing this thing hard but still maintain control over where it was hitting. Definitely a lot of force required. I spent a little bit more effort to straighten the squiggle toward the front of the panel, and then hit the crease in the middle of the white sweep area (using a 4x4 board to spread the load, of course). The outer panel really started to come un-attached to the inner one at that point. So I stopped. At this point, I think I need to remove all the fin trim to start separating them.

I have a friend coming over from Australia to work on his '36 Chevy in a couple of weeks, so I need to clear this off my driveway when he gets here. So I need to work on making it easier to move. The engine wasn't sitting in it's mount on the passenger side causing the driveshaft & E-brake drum to rub on the side of the floor. That makes it hard to push. So I re-positioned it to sit straight. Next, I think I'll work on getting working brakes in the car.

I couldn't see the engine number in the daylight, but it was very visible with a flashlight after dark. This looks like the correct engine for a '57 Belvedere, as it starts with P31-3XXXXX. I don't know what those jumbled 5288 numbers are for below it.



(57Belv Engine Number.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Engine Number.jpg (134KB - 19 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-05-28 3:15 AM (#635414 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		The picture with the axe is really inspiring and exciting Nathan....old school bodywork at its best..With my balance problems I would probably end up with the axe in my back..
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-28 12:12 PM (#635417 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I noticed from this picture that my hair is starting to turn gray. I'm not allowed to get old until I get my projects done! Two previous owners ago, Garrett told me that this car came from Roswell, New Mexico. The guy he purchased it from had saved it from getting crushed into scrap. I probably should have purchased a geiger counter before messing with this thing! Is that why 3 previous owners didn't dare to empty all the dirt out of it?

Edited by Powerflite 2024-05-28 12:25 PM
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frwl
Posted 2024-05-28 2:54 PM (#635423 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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An all-vinyl red and black ‘57 Belvedere Convertible upholstery – Trim Code 414;
It is an optional trim in Red Velva-Grain Vinyl bolsters and Black Air Weave Vinyl inserts (instead Flight Weave Fabric inserts on the Hardtops)
The upholstery patterns are different, but the door cards and the rear quarter trim panels are the same, I guess...



(1.JPG)



(2.JPG)



(3.JPG)



(4.JPG)



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Attachments 1.JPG (162KB - 18 downloads)
Attachments 2.JPG (159KB - 15 downloads)
Attachments 3.JPG (113KB - 17 downloads)
Attachments 4.JPG (146KB - 17 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-05-29 12:36 AM (#635434 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		Be happy if you have grey hair...some of us have no hair left..
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-05-31 2:32 PM (#635475 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I guess I should count my blessings!

Thanks for the pictures Igor. That front door panel looks good. Hopefully I can find the trim pieces I need for it. But his rear arm rests don't look correct. They should be black to match the black center section of the door panel. Then at the bottom of the arm rest panel, there is a small, curved piece of trim that separates the black from another red section at the bottom. That's how mine are, and I have the small trim pieces too.

Both door latches and much of the door hardware is missing from this car for some reason. I rummaged through my parts and found the front door latches from the '57 Windsor that I parted out. Those are in pretty decent shape. After oiling them up to get them to move freely, I was able to get the driver's door to latch well. However, the passenger door has been badly abused so it's going to need quite a bit of repair work before I can attempt it. Also, the fender isn't sitting on the car right, so it currently prevents the door from being opened very far. I'll need to fix that first.



(57 Belvedere Rear Door panel.jpg)



(57Belv RDoor Blowout.jpg)



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Attachments 57 Belvedere Rear Door panel.jpg (91KB - 16 downloads)
Attachments 57Belv RDoor Blowout.jpg (115KB - 17 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2024-06-01 1:00 AM (#635484 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: RE: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Location: Finland		Ouch..much have been some rat on that door..
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Powerflite
Posted 2024-06-10 12:58 PM (#635618 - in reply to #635344)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: So. Cal		I may just cut a hole in there to give more access to the latch, but just clean up the hole better.

My hood has holes in it for a hood ornament. I assume that no '57 Plymouth came with one right? If so, I'll need to weld those holes in. I purchased a bunch of parts for the car from BigM, including the fender ornaments and fender trim. Thanks John! I also got the painted inserts from the parts car, so that solves the problem of getting the paint to look aged on there. I just need to figure out where to drill the holes for it. I didn't know that the '57 Plymouth used those painted inserts.



(57Belv Hood Ornament.jpg)



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Attachments 57Belv Hood Ornament.jpg (152KB - 8 downloads)
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ronbo97
Posted 2024-06-10 9:50 PM (#635625 - in reply to #635618)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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No hood ornament on 57. Don't know what painted inserts you are referring to. On 57 Belvedere, there was a contrasting color option, which matched the roof color. But that was painted directly on the body.

Ron

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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2024-06-11 1:16 AM (#635628 - in reply to #635625)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: CA		On sport tone equipped Belvederes the front fenders had the contrasting paint applied on a metal strip and inserted in between the stainless trim. The front ends were pre-assembled and painted away from the body.. this is why the front clips often don't match the wear on the main body, they were painted differently and separately.
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ronbo97
Posted 2024-06-11 10:21 AM (#635630 - in reply to #635628)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop


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Finsinthemirror - 2024-06-11 1:16 AM On sport tone equipped Belvederes the front fenders had the contrasting paint applied on a metal strip and inserted in between the stainless trim. The front ends were pre-assembled and painted away from the body.. this is why the front clips often don't match the wear on the main body, they were painted differently and separately.

Interesting. I know they did that for 55-6 Desoto. Wasn't aware that was done for 57 Plymouth.

Ron

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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2024-06-11 1:44 PM (#635635 - in reply to #635630)
Subject: Re: Red '57 Belvedere 2dr Hardtop



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Location: CA		It could be depending upon the factory they were built but every one I've had was like that and also built in LA. My 58's as well.. You can see the wear through on Powerdlites car.. you can see the red worn away and the white beneath on much more of the body than just the sport tone area. My 58 is identical. I polished too far on the top of my door and there is white paint under it. Never had that on the front clips where that contrast painted insert goes.
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