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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
 
Location: Vancouver, Washington | OK...relatively new to vintage mopars.. I have 61' Dodge Pioneer I am restoring.. After heafty search.. and the purchase of a manual it's fairly evident there is no fuse box to be had, found or otherwise. Looks like everything is in the gauges, appliances, add-ons and such... My harness is not in the best of condition and I really don't relish the idea of jeopardizeing much of the NOS gauges, radio, power windows etc.. Has anyone installed a update wiring system for their 60's mopar? If so, what system did you use? Recommend? I installed one in my Chevy C-word (camaro), with all circuits marked and even corresponding GM colors... does anyone make an updated harness (modern fuse box) with mopar colored wires and original style terminals? If they don't they sure a hell should...  |
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Expert
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Location: Blythewood, SC | They don't and they should not. The original harness has circuit breakers and will give you very little trouble. A GM harness is not superior to the original harness. You can put a GM style harness in, but it is not as well laid out as the original.
Rhode Island Wire used to make a reproduction original harness. They may still make one. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1107
Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | my harness in my 59 Belvedere was cut up and had a lot of cracked insulation on it that there was no way I was going to use it. I have a 12 circuit harness from American harness that has a dedicated convertible top circuit. I am about to install it. All the wires are marked with there function so it should be easy. I will rewrap the harness in non-adhesive black tape (Year One) so it should look decent.
If you have haness that is in good shape use it, but I have no complaints about upgrading the harness with a fuseblock and better circuit protection. If you are into correctness then by the re-pop that Brian is talking about. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 340
Location: Tacoma, WA | If also considering exact-reproduction-style, is Greg Legatt still making repro harnesses? I eventually want to get one of his for my Chrysler. He quoted me a price long ago, and I have't been able to do it yet.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=13950&...
Edited by Dave L. 2010-06-27 3:51 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | Guys, thx for the input.. John would be interested to hear how the install goes... please drop me a line, when complete... Yeah, I heard about Leggatt and from the feedback he sounds really good... I called him and the quote was a cool $1k for a full harness...Actually quite worth it, given the degree of quality and the satisfied customers, but if there is a cheaper way with fuse box protection... I at the very least want to explore the option.. Thanks again guys...very helpful
Edited by 61forfun 2010-06-28 11:50 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1107
Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | 61forfun - 2010-06-28 9:49 AM
Guys, thx for the input.. John would be interested to hear how the install goes... please drop me a line, when complete... Yeah, I heard about Leggatt and from the feedback he sounds really good... I called him and the quote was a cool $1k for a full harness...Actually quite worth it, given the degree of quality and the satisfied customers, but if there is a cheaper way with fuse box protection... I at the very least want to explore the option.. Thanks again guys...very helpful
Well, this re-wiring is taking longer then expected. Trying to blend in the old wiring harness into the newer modern harness is difficult to say the least. What went as standard way of making turn signals blink is different then the newer modern harness. I called the companies tech line and the guy was rude that I could not figure this out. So I won't be calling back or recommending this company to others. Seems that the universal harness is actually all set up for GM based products and not really universal. Too late now!
I had to call in some friends to see what they think. We terminated some wires and omitted others. Not ready to put the battery in yet to see if all parts work OK or not. Most locations in the engine, cabin and rear seems straight forward but hope I have blinkers when the time comes Probably in the next two weeks or so time permitting.
Hopefully the Ron Francis harness might be easier. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1107
Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | PS, the 59 Plymouth is set up for all 12 Volt DC guages, not like Chryslers, Dodges and De Soto's whose gauges run with a 5 Volt DC limiter. Mother Mopar's way of keeping the Plymouth the low cost model was to do a straight 12 Volt method. Saves $2 in making the Plymouth back in the day... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 421
Location: N. Georgia | I have to date rewired three cars without buying anybody's harness. I get several rolls of wire in different gauges and colors, a bunch of connectors and have at it. It's a LOT cheaper than buying a finished harness and you have the satisfaction of knowing where everything goes and how it gets there. Of course, if you're going for judging points, ignore the above. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | John, Where is this DC limiter your referring to and what does it look like? And what is the reason for using it? Thanks, Jerry |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | I attached the following article on another post, but here is again some info out of my 61 quick ref guide issue #155- It explains the voltage limiter. For 61' Dodge and Desoto are the only two that do not use the limiter. may be different setup for earlier cars.
Edited by 61forfun 2010-10-25 7:31 PM
Attachments
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 int-ext_reg_gauges[1].jpeg (132KB - 253 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | John,
Here's a pic of the progress of my YNZ install... pretty good harness. Between several schematics and a couple of nice diagrams YNZ supplied my anxiety dropped from 10 to 5 in the first hour or so. I'm not complaining.....well I guess I am, because this design (factory harness) in my opinion is nuts compared to other nameless car manufacturers products. It's a maazing how many jumpers and single wire versus multi-plug this thing has. I bet there were threats of going on strike when the line workers had to put this sucker in... ok, now that, that's off my chest, I must acknowledge that it did the job for 50 years before melting the original harness at the ammeter and several other plugs, and it was like putting a jigsaw puzzle together, slow but entertaining and glad it's done.
 (ynz harness install 61 Dodge2.JPG)
 (ynz harness install 61 Dodge4.JPG)
 (ynz harness install 61 Dodge3.JPG)
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ynz harness install 61 Dodge2.JPG (101KB - 247 downloads)
ynz harness install 61 Dodge4.JPG (104KB - 236 downloads)
ynz harness install 61 Dodge3.JPG (97KB - 249 downloads)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1107
Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | Sound like yours is pretty good harness to work with. The harness I got was set up for a GM steering column and it was just working out the steering columns wires. (6 of them and where to tie them in and what wires not to use or save for future use. All the other wires were easy to land in the right spot and terminate. I am using a 40 amp circuit that was for a shaved door as my convertible circuit. Still using the Circuit Breaker on the switch but now it is fused too. Overkill....yes but the harness cost only 150 bucks and it was the way I wanted to go on it.
I agree that it might have bee easier just to re-wire like the original harness was set up to do. I could get all the MTW or THHN wire I want free, (I am an electrical sales rep) But I just wanted more fuse protection and went this route. I am moving forward and will hook up the battery and see if I the turn signals work or not. Then it just moving them around till all works correctly. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1107
Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | 59 in Calif - 2010-10-25 9:09 AM
John, Where is this DC limiter your referring to and what does it look like? And what is the reason for using it? Thanks, Jerry
Jerry, Sam's comments are right on the money, Your Dodge and Chrysler's run on a 5 volt DC bi-metallic voltage limiter on the back of the instrument panel. My Plymouth, being the low priced option car, went with the cheaper 12 v DC gauges. The limiter steps down the DC voltage from 12 v to 5 volts.
Seremy's make up for car thread that most have seen about his 59 Dodge Convertible, he went as far as to switch out the bi-metallic limiter to an electronic version.
This same limiter is in my 70 Cuda Convertible too, but I have upgrade to the Electronic version on that car. Until I saw my wiring diagram and could not find it and also looked on my backside of the Instrument panel, I discovered that I did not have one and my gauges were a direct 12 volt DC version. The work fine at 12 volt but I take it by limiting the voltage to 5 volt gauges they must be better by not letting the higher 12 volt DC thru.
I will defer to more knowledgeable Electronic guys on what is better...12 volt or 5 volt DC gauges.
Here is the link on Serge's Make up for cars and about 3/4 the way down this first page he talks about how he upgraded his 59 Ddoge to Electronic voltage limiter.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=23691&...
Edited by 1959 Belvedere Conv 2010-10-28 12:14 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 466
Location: Vancouver, Washington | John,
Thanks for that link to prior post by Seremy. Dang Seremy what are you a doggone engineer? Great stuff..you are innovative, creative and I sure appreciate appreciate your posts....same for many of you....you guys rock!! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Hi everyone
on the voltage limiter issue, it is there to try to maintain accuracy of the gauges. If it is not there, as the voltage level in the car changes (idle to high revs or lights
on / lights off) the gauges will change there reading. With the voltage limiter, a constant or average voltage is maintained whatever is happening in the electrical system |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | OOH, good thread, I was wondering why my 57 Plymouth's petrol gauge was all over the place. Checked some road tests from back in the day and they complained about the same thing...
Now to retrofit a fix for it !!!
Colin |
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Expert
Posts: 4054
Location: Connecticut | 57plybel - 2010-11-03 9:37 AM OOH, good thread, I was wondering why my 57 Plymouth's petrol gauge was all over the place. Checked some road tests from back in the day and they complained about the same thing... Now to retrofit a fix for it !!! Colin If your fuel gauge is bouncing around, then the problem is with the tank sending unit. It has nothing to do with installing a voltage limiter. My 58 Plymouth's fuel gauge works well. The only time there is noticeable movement is when turning, which is to be expected as the fuel level is shifting. Ron
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand. | ronbo97 - 2010-11-04 6:10 AM
57plybel - 2010-11-03 9:37 AM OOH, good thread, I was wondering why my 57 Plymouth's petrol gauge was all over the place. Checked some road tests from back in the day and they complained about the same thing... Now to retrofit a fix for it !!! Colin If your fuel gauge is bouncing around, then the problem is with the tank sending unit. It has nothing to do with installing a voltage limiter. My 58 Plymouth's fuel gauge works well. The only time there is noticeable movement is when turning, which is to be expected as the fuel level is shifting. Ron
Same with the fuel gauge on my 57 Plymouth. It is extremely reliable and stable. Check your sender and replace if necessary. There is nothing wrong with the original setup. 53 years of use on yours is the problem.
Glenn. |
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Updated Wiring harness
