Re: IML: Gearshift quadrants, side marker lights, etc.
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Re: IML: Gearshift quadrants, side marker lights, etc.



Dear Bill,

We disagree a lot on some issues, it seems, but no one can dispute the depth and breadth of your car knowledge! Really is amazing to learn about the Safety Speedometer, with its different colors.

I wonder what would have happened if Ford had overtaken Plymouth in 1956? I think that's what they were trying to do-- as I understand it, Chevrolet was #1 in those days, Plymouth was #2, and Ford #3. The safety campaign was designed to take Ford's sales past Plymouth's and put them in the #2 slot-- when it didn't, it was largely interpreted that the public did not want safety in its cars. Which was untrue, because most of the safety features Ford offered that year were options, and the public ordered them in droves-- only it wasn't enough to push total sales past Plymouth's. Anyway, I wonder if the government would have gotten as involved in the 60's had Ford been more successful? Could we have had a totally self-regulating car industry??

To keep this Imperial related, I took my "new" '68 to work yesterday and the reaction of my co-workers was interesting. One guy got in the car and was amazed by the skinny steering wheel you could "see through." Another asked me what the little windows up front were-- apparently he had never heard of "vent windows."

Last, I'm wondering if the pushbutton transmission could possibly enjoy a re-emergence. With computers and features like I-Drive, why not a new generation of pushbutton transmission? It seems like the public might accept it this time.

MM


On Thursday, October 13, 2005, at 10:02 PM, Bill Watson wrote:



I agree that the AMA did not have the power to force any firm to adopt any
equipment, which I why I stated, " It was the AMA that pushed for .. . "


Safety had been pushed by auto manufacturer long before Ford's infamous year
of safety in 1956. Chrysler was bragging about the safety of its instrument
panels with no protrusions in 1937. All switches and levers were flush with
the surface (unlike their 1940's instrument panels). For 1939 Chrysler
introduced their Safety Speedometer, that glowed green, yellow or red
depending on speed. It was copied by GM twenty years later. In 1949
Chrysler introduced the padded instrument panel and safety window
regulators - the ends folded flush with the handle. Nash had seat belts in
1950. Kaiser had a padded instrument panel and a pop-out windshield in
1951.


And Lee Iacocca proved that you could sell Fords in 1956 - he made himself
noticed in Dearborn with his sales records in Pennsylvania. Although Ford
and other claim it was safety that sunk Ford, compare the Chevrolet and Ford
in 1955 and 1956. Can you tell a 1955 Ford from a 1956 from the front, side
and back? How about a Chevrolet? Chevrolet sold cars in 1956 because
buyers knew their neighbours would know they had a new car no matter which
way they parked in the driveway. The major difference between a 1955 and
1956 Ford was the parking light shape. A 1956 Chevrolet did not look like
last year's car. IMHO, that was why Ford stumbled in 1956 and sold like
crazy in 1957 when Ford had a brand new body while Chevrolet did not.


After 1956, Rambler and Cadillac introduced dual braking systems in 1962,
followed in 1963 by Studebaker, who also made seat belts and padded
instrument panel standard. All American manufacturers had padded
instrument panels, seat belts, outside driver's mirror and backup lights as
standard in 1966 and all had dual braking systems for 1967.


Granted not all manufacturers offered all the equipment I quoted as
standard, but the majority did. It was usually the lower priced models that
skimped on them. In the late 1980's the lowest-priced Diplomat and Gran
Fury had the day-night interior mirror listed as optional equipment.


Bill
Vancouver, BC



----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McDonald" <tomswift@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Gearshift quadrants, side marker lights, etc.


Dear Bill,


While it seems that most of what you say here is correct and I
certainly agree with you that the Federal government did not cause the
end of the pushbutton transmission, there are a few statements you make
here that are a bit inaccurate, I believe.

First of all, you state:

Even
side marker lights/reflectors were not the result of any federal law,
which
is why Chrysler products had lights in 1968 and reflectors in 1969.

This is not true. Side marker lamps were mandated by the Federal government with the introduction of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, which went into effect on January 1, 1968. Many other safety systems were also mandated by this first FMVSS, such as seat belts.

The purpose of side marker lights, or reflectors, was to increase the
"conspicuity" of vehicles when viewed from the side at night-- in other
words, to make them more visible at night when they are entering the
roadway from a side street (to avoid side collisions).

Same as well for the adoption of such items as seat belts, padded
dashboards, anti-glare paint on dashboards and windshield surrounds,
day-night mirrors, driver's outside rearview mirrors, backup lights,
dual
braking systems - all these either appeared on cars or were approved
for
production  prior to the enactment of the above acts due to the AMA.

While it is true that some manufacturers independently adopted or elected to use the safety devices you mention, that does not mean that all of them did-- many did not. When Ford decided to use safety as its marketing theme in 1956 it was widely believed to have failed miserably, a belief which discouraged other manufacturers from jumping on "the safety bandwagon" for years afterwards. It also should not be construed from your remarks that these devices were brought into being by the AMA, which had no power to make any manufacturer conform to its wishes. None of these devices became standard equipment on all American cars until they were required by Federal law.

Mark M


On Wednesday, October 12, 2005, at 08:55 PM, Bill Watson wrote:



You would have a hard time finding the law that outlawed Chrysler's pushbuttons as there was no such law. The American federal government did not have the right to pass any legislation regarding auto equipment or safety regulations until the enactment of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act and the Highway Safety Act in 1966. Those laws enabled the American government to establish the Department of Transportation and proceed to pass a multitude of laws concerning auto and highway safety..

Chrysler dropped the pushbuttons for marketing reasons. Although
Chrysler
owners loved the buttons, GM and Ford owners were not so positive about
them. And if Chrysler wanted a bigger share of the American market,
they
would have to entice GM and Ford owners to buy Chrysler. And thus the
buttons died.


There were no standards set for automatic transmission gear selection
in the
1960's, contrary to what many believe.  The P-R-N-D-L or P-R-N-D-2-1
quadrant was the accepted format for the Big Three - even Chrysler's
pushbuttons were R-B-D-2-l - but Studebaker hung onto the P-N-D-L-R
quadrant
to the very end in 1966.  And Corvair's standard gear selector for its
Powerglide was a dash-mounted lever, just like Chrysler in 1955.  And
next
time you get on a newer model transit bus - Gillig, Flyer, Orion,
etc., ask
the driver to shift his bus into neutral and then back into a forward
gear.
Watch him use pushbuttons to do it.

Until the passing of the above two laws, the Automobile Manufacturers
Association was the big power.  It was the AMA that pushed for the
adoption
of sealed beam headlamps in 1939 and the quad headlamp system in
1956-57.
Again, it was not the federal government that approved them as they
had no
power over such matters until 1966.

Same as well for the adoption of such items as seat belts, padded
dashboards, anti-glare paint on dashboards and windshield surrounds,
day-night mirrors, driver's outside rearview mirrors, backup lights,
dual
braking systems - all these either appeared on cars or were approved
for
production  prior to the enactment of the above acts due to the AMA.
Even
side marker lights/reflectors were not the result of any federal law,
which
is why Chrysler products had lights in 1968 and reflectors in 1969.

If you want to know what the federal government does say about
transmission
shift lever sequence, below is a quote from their regulations, first
announced December 2, 1971, and not sometime in 1963 or 1964:
.
From the Department of Transportation, Title 49: Transportation, [36
FR
22902, Dec. 2, 1971, as amended at 54 FR 29045, July 11, 1989; 56 FR
12471,
Mar. 26, 1991; 60 FR 13642, March 14, 1995]  -

"PART 571-FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS
"Subpart B-Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

"§ 571.102   Standard No. 102; Transmission shift lever sequence,
starter
interlock, and transmission braking effect.

"S3.1.4 Identification of shift lever positions.

"S3.1.4.1  Except as specified in S3.1.4.3, if the transmission shift
lever
sequence includes a park position, identification of shift lever
positions,
including the positions in relation to each other and the position
selected,
shall be displayed in view of the driver whenever any of the following
conditions exist:

"(a) The ignition is in a position where the transmission can be
shifted.

"(b) The transmission is not in park.

"S3.1.4.2  Except as specified in S3.1.4.3, if the transmission shift
lever
sequence does not include a park position, identification of shift
lever
positions, including the positions in relation to each other and the
position selected, shall be displayed in view of the driver whenever
the
ignition is in a position in which the engine is capable of operation.

"S3.1.4.3  Such information need not be displayed when the ignition is
in a
position that is used only to start the vehicle.

"S3.1.4.4  Effective September 23, 1991, all of the information
required to
be displayed by S3.1.4.1 or S3.1.4.2 shall be displayed in view of the
driver in a single location. At the option of the manufacturer,
redundant
displays providing some or all of the information may be provided."


As you can see, there is no concern as to the order the gears are displayed, only their visibility to the driver, with and without a park position

Bill
Vancouver, BC




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