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Thanks Paul:
Actually, that might be the key to this
mystery?
Here are my thoughts - maybe this choke set-up uses
an electrical current to heat up the thermal coil that opens the choke valve as
the engine heats up. So... perhaps the electrical connections go to a
gauge sending unit - as the engine warms, more current goes to that gauge to
make the gauge read at a higher level? - that increased current to the thermal
coil would also make it open the choke more??
If I was an engineer trying to solve the choke
release issue, that would be an obvious design I would try.
Now, that begs the question.... does anyone have
this choke disk on their Mopar? If so, where do the terminals
connect? Or, if Chrysler never used this set-up, where can I purchase the
1- Well type choke set up, 2- a new vacuum choke pull-off, 3- the proper
linkage?
Thanks everyone for your help,
Dan Richardson
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Choke Heater
Stuff...
You are correct in that the engine compartment itself generally
doesn't make enough heat, fast enough to open a fully closed choke. Some of us
have adapted our cars to require less heat (necessarily due to failing
choke pull off mechanisms), but that is not the ideal. Running the heater hose
up against the housing can help, but with our '50s and '60s cars, only when
the heater is on. The choke must be fully closed when the car is cold in order
to start easily. The speed of the opening is dependent on the type of
car, and the climate. My 1980 FMC Linc. T.C. feeds to power to the choke
spring through the oil pressure sending unit! I guess they thought it
would match up to the required amount of current needed to open the choke
properly. When the oil pressure sending unit failed, I had a heck of time
figuring out what was going on with my choke, not that I planned to drive the
car with no oil pressure. The trouble was, once I realized that the car had
o.p., I still couldn't run it because the choke wouldn't op en until I
replaced the sending unit. This was only true on this model car that came with
the H.O. engine option.
That part isn't Imperial related, but since you brought up the question
of a power source for your choke heater, it is interesting so I thought I
would mention it.
Paul W. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel
Richardson <TheRichardsonFamily@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: Imperial Club
<mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 15:50:01
-0500 Subject: Fw: IML: more carb questions
Paul & Brian & others:
I think that it is an electric-thermal choke set
up. The local Carquest guy said I should run the terminals to an
ignition switched power source. The 12V helps heat the thermal spring to
open the choke as the engine warms up?
Maybe that makes sense - there probably isn't
enough heat next to the carb to back the choke off as the car heats up?
(otherwise, why have the thermal spring in the intake manifold?) Inside
the disk is a piston connected to a vacuum source on the carb, that pulls on
the choke as well - that would work like the diaphragm choke
pull-off.
The 1967 FSM does identify the 4327 as an HP 440
Auto Trans. carb. But, it makes no mention of any other choke set
up for Chrysler except the "well type". In the kit, it shows
applications to some GM engines as well - perhaps this carb came off a
GM, or maybe the Dodges or Plymouths had this set up, or maybe this is a late
'67 year-end issue?
Regardless, now the question is where exactly do
the terminals connect to? If anyone could advise, that gets me a little
closer.
Regarding the springs, I only noticed the springs
on the throttle linkage in the FSM. It seems that the carb itself needs
a spring somewhere - maybe not but, I can't figure out how everything operates
as it sits now.
Thanks for the help,
Dan Richardson
300L w/ the heart of a '67 Imperial
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: IML: more carb questions
I am no carb expert, but the terminals that you describe sound
like connections for an electric-thermal choke pull off. I have this
on several of my other cars from GM and FMC. There is a disc in the
housing that heats the choke spring, activating choke opening
during warm up. Imperials from the '60s usually had a spring mounted in the
intake manifold that heated up and pulled a lever to open the choke. You
should be able to make this work.
Paul W. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel
Richardson <TheRichardsonFamily@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: Imperial Club
<mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sun, 14 May 2006 09:33:43
-0500 Subject: IML: more carb questions
Hi everyone!
I'm rebuilding a Carter 4327 to go on the '67
Imperial 440 I have in my 300L. Any carb experts out there?
In the FSM, it identifies that carb application
as a non-CAP, High Performance. A-OK with me. The carb has a choke
set-up that is not shown in the FSM - at least I don't think so. (the
FSM refers only to a "well type" choke - that's the kind that hides in the
intake manifold, right?) This choke is a disc, just a bit smaller than a
snuff tin, mounted on the carb right where the vacuum choke pull off would
be. It has the thermo-coil in the housing and also a piston that seems
to act as the vacuum choke pull-off.
The rebuild kit shows this choke set-up on the
diagram - still A-OK. One question is - what are the two electrical
terminals on the outside of this choke housing, disc looking thing for?
Do they need to be connected to anything for the choke to operate
correctly? Or, are they test leads for the mechanic to check choke
operation?
Also, I am missing the choke connector rod (I
might find one in the basement) and I am not sure where it attaches. To
the slotted bracket or to the hole on the choke rod?
Lastly, I have no springs pulling on any of the
carb linkage (except throttle rod and throttle return). In trying to
figure out the operation of the primaries & secondaries, it seems that
there should be something pulling on something else.
Wow! Way too detailed - and yet way too
vague!! Is there a Carter doctor in the house? Or anyone
that has a rebuild book that can advise of the way chokes and springs
work?
I know this is a tough one!!!
Thanks,
Dan Richardson
300L with the heart of a '67 Imperial
inside
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