Re: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial

The oil in your car should be changed even though it has only gone 500 miles. With little use, the oil should still be changed at least once a year. A quality SAE 30 will work fine. 10w-40 is fine too. If the engine has decent oil pressure, and sounds good both cold and warm, don't worry about it. Keep it clean and full. If this car was being driven everyday and at highway speeds there might be a reason to fine tune the brand and type of engine oil. Modern multi-grade detergent oil will work fine in a 1960 Imperial.

The timing should be set per the specifications in the FSM. The exception to this would be if under that setting the car doesn't run correctly. The most common problem would be spark knocking due to today's fuels. To correct this, timing would be retarded slightly. The other reason that the FSM timing spec might not be suitable is if the timing chain is worn or the vibration damper has slipped/been replaced causing the timing marks to become inaccurate. All of these scenarios result in the need for "road timing" the car. That means that you get it close, then drive the car and adjust the timing by trial and error. You need to be careful as incorrect timing can/will ruin the engine. Basically, if it runs good, doesn't spark knock, and cranks over easy cold and warm its pretty close. Based on what you stated in your note, the timing was probably fine right where it was. If you had noticed that it was difficult to crank the engine when it was at running temperatures, after a gas fill up for example, and/or not iced pinging, that would be sufficient reason to adjust the timing.

Just because the car is 47 years old, don't assume that the engine has been overhauled. The engine could still run very well if it was not rebuilt, but had been taken care of properly by all of its owners. In the absence of service records, unless you take it apart, you may never know what has been done.

I am sure that you will get a lot of very technical advice regarding both questions, and most of it will be very good. In 35 years and over 2,500,000 miles of driving, the above general information has served me well. The only enigines that I have owned that required overhauling were that way when I bought them. Otherwise, my cars have remained good runners by using suitable oils and gas, along with proper tune up and maintenance.

Paul W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:28:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial

Hi all,

I would like to hear your expertise about two questions I have with regard
to my 413 engine (1960 Imperial).

Here is the story, I bought last summer in California a great 1960
Imperial and after bringing it to Europe where I live (the Netherlands) I
started to make the car ready for use on the road.

I don't know the history of the car, I only know that it is a repo car.
I bought it from a bank that had it for sale at an auction.
As far as I can see and judge the engine must be a rebuild one, cause it
is running powerful and smooth (can't imagine that I wouldn't have been
overhauled in 46 years).

I only have driven the car so far for a 500 miles or so and now it is
ready and legally approved to use at a regular base (passed all the
essential tests at the local DMV this monday!)

Now we come to my first question: since I own this car almost a year now I
think it is time to do an oil change allthough I only have driven 500
miles with the new oil that was poured in last summer in the US.

What I would like to know is what kind of oil I should buy: a modern 10W40
or a straight classic SAE 30 oil. From all the stories at the repair side
of the club webpages I learned that a modern multigrade won't do any good
because of the very light base oil that is used (SAE10..). Thank you Dick
for explaining that issue clearly as always!!
But is it safe to use SAE 30 singlegrade in a much colder environment then
California??

I would not drive the car at winters when it is freezing, but mainly on
shiny days with temperatures between let's say 50 and 80 degrees outside
temperatures.
Would I be safe then or is 50 degrees to low to safely use SAE30?
At the moment the engine is using a little oil, allthough I don't see any
leaks or smoke at the tailpipes.
I am almost sure the workshop that checked the car before delivery to me
simply put a modern 10W40 in it so that might explain a lot..

My next question is about how much pre-ignition is allowed on our beloved
413 engine?
When I checked the timing last weekend prior to bring the car for its
final check to the local DMV, I noticed that is has a massive 16 degrees
BTDC timing!!
The FSM says that the timing should be 10 degrees BTDC but when I readjust
the timing to that amount I experienced a severe powerloss :(
For the book "How to repair big block Mopar engines" by Don Taylor I
learned that it is safe to start with 12 degrees BTDC and then check if
the engines "pings".. Well, I have heard no pinging with even 16 degrees
BTDC and the engine is running very smooth then (a lot smoother at idle
then with 10 degrees BTDC timing) and has lots and lots of power. Trotlle
response is very impressive with that kind of pre-ignition set.

But will I be safe with 16 degrees BTDC ?? If memory serves me well the
same Don Taylor also mentioned that you should never go beyond the limit
of +/- 4 degrees then the factory given 10 degrees of pre-ignition. That
means that 14 degrees BTDC should be the limit for my engine?

What is your advice on both subjects??

Many thanks for your thoughts!


Robert



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