RE: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial

["Dick Benjamin" <dickb@xxxxxxxxx>]

I just returned from vacation, and found about 200 IML messages on my
e-mail, most of which died a quick death under my "delete" key, but this one
did catch my eye.

On the oil change question, the reason to change oil is from contamination
caused by starting the engine many times, especially if it is not run long
enough to evaporate all the moisture that condenses into the oil.  If the
engine has always been thoroughly warmed up by driving it 10 miles or so, it
is safe to change it every 1500 to 2000 miles even if this takes more than a
year.  However, if it has been started and stopped without a thorough warm
up, I'd change it and the oil filter now, and then avoid this type of
operation in the future.

As for the grade of oil, SAE30W was recommended when the car was new, unless
the temperature was expected to be below 32F the next time the car was to be
operated.  In your climate, if you feel you might want to use the car when
it is below freezing when you start it, I think it is  OK to use 20W50 your
car, in fact you can use that year round.  I would not use the 10W40 or
10W30 that is becoming so common now in that old an engine.  Note that
SAE30W does not mean "poor quality" oil or "non detergent" oil.  Many older
Diesel engine and high performance engine manufacturers recommend using this
oil, and premium grade oils in this grade are usually available in heavy
equipment supply houses.  Using a Diesel rated oil is perfectly OK in a gas
engine - it has a stronger detergent action - but this is a good thing!

As for your pre-ignition questions - if you can set the timing so that the
car runs well and you don't hear pre-ignition "pinging", you are not going
to hurt the engine.  It is quite possible that your timing indicator has
slipped on the crank pulley, and you are getting a wrong idea about where it
is set.  I recommend just advancing the timing until you just barely can
induce "ping" at part throttle at about 30 MPH, with the gas you plan to use
in the car, and with the engine thoroughly warmed up.  More acceleration
should make the "ping" go away, and of course less acceleration will make it
go away - just a tiny range of acceleration should be able to make it ping -
that is the optimum setting, regardless of what the timing mark says.

Throttle response with the 413 is superb - due to the design of the intake
system and the AFB carburetor - that is one of the joys of driving these
cars - that "snap" off the line.  Of course the 727 helps too!

Dick Benjamin

-----Original Message-----
From: mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:mailing-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rob van der Es
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:29 AM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial

Hi all,

I would like to hear your expertise about two questions I have with regard
to my 413 engine (1960 Imperial).

Here is the story, I bought last summer in California a great 1960
Imperial and after bringing it to Europe where I live (the Netherlands) I
started to make the car ready for use on the road.

I don't know the history of the car, I only know that it is a repo car.
I bought it from a bank that had it for sale at an auction.
As far as I can see and judge the engine must be a rebuild one, cause it
is running powerful and smooth (can't imagine that I wouldn't have been
overhauled in 46 years).

I only have driven the car so far for a 500 miles or so and now it is
ready and legally approved to use at a regular base (passed all the
essential tests at the local DMV this monday!)

Now we come to my first question: since I own this car almost a year now I
think it is time to do an oil change allthough I only have driven 500
miles with the new oil that was poured in last summer in the US.

What I would like to know is what kind of oil I should buy: a modern 10W40
or a straight classic SAE 30 oil. From all the stories at the repair side
of the club webpages I learned that a modern multigrade won't do any good
because of the very light base oil that is used (SAE10..). Thank you Dick
for explaining that issue clearly as always!!
But is it safe to use SAE 30 singlegrade in a much colder environment then
California??

I would not drive the car at winters when it is freezing, but mainly on
shiny days with temperatures between let's say 50 and 80 degrees outside
temperatures.
Would I be safe then or is 50 degrees to low to safely use SAE30?
At the moment the engine is using a little oil, allthough I don't see any
leaks or smoke at the tailpipes.
I am almost sure the workshop that checked the car before delivery to me
simply put a modern 10W40 in it so that might explain a lot..

My next question is about how much pre-ignition is allowed on our beloved
413 engine?
When I checked the timing last weekend prior to bring the car for its
final check to the local DMV, I noticed that is has a massive 16 degrees
BTDC timing!!
The FSM says that the timing should be 10 degrees BTDC but when I readjust
the timing to that amount I experienced a severe powerloss :(
For the book "How to repair big block Mopar engines" by Don Taylor I
learned that it is safe to start with 12 degrees BTDC and then check if
the engines "pings".. Well, I have heard no pinging with even 16 degrees
BTDC and the engine is running very smooth then (a lot smoother at idle
then with 10 degrees BTDC timing) and has lots and lots of power. Trotlle
response is very impressive with that kind of pre-ignition set.

But will I be safe with 16 degrees BTDC ?? If memory serves me well the
same Don Taylor also mentioned that you should never go beyond the limit
of +/- 4 degrees then the factory given 10 degrees of pre-ignition. That
means that 14 degrees BTDC should be the limit for my engine?

What is your advice on both subjects??

Many thanks for your thoughts!


Robert



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