Re: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial

["Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yep,

You might be very right here Paul!
I too think this rather unusual setting of 16 degrees BTDC might have
something to do with the Pertronix ignition and maybe with the
aftermarktet Edelbrock carb..

Because strangely enough, according to the Pertronix catalog there isn't a
kit available for a 1960 Imperial with a single point distributor..
They only have a kit for a dual point distributor of an Chrysler 300!!
So who know what modifications the mechanic that installed it has made to
keep the engine running fine.

Since the cars runs very good I will leave it a 16 BTDC then!

Thanks,

Robert

Op Vr, 16 juni, 2006 4:00 am, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
> I should have added that another exception to the factory recommended
> settings could be major modifications to the original ignition system.
> From the sound of it, the mechanic who installed this, and the after
> market carb, made some changes deliberately to optimize the running of
> the engine. If the car runs well, it should probably be left alone.
>
> Paul W.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:21:28 +0200 (CEST)
> Subject: Re: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial
>
>
>
> Thanks Paul for your early reply :)
>
>
> Yes, I too think that it would be wise to change the oil after a year.
> I think I will go to the singlegrade SAE30 then, just to see if the engine
>  will stop using a little oil. I just read in the FSM that it is safe to
> use SAE30 with temperatures as low as 32 degrees! Well, at those
> temperatures I won't drive my Imperial anyway :)
>
> I will try SAE30 then just to see how the oilpressure is with a hot
> engine, right now is is a little noisier with a hot engine then it is with
>  a cold engine but that might be the fact that workshop had poured in a
> thin 10W40 multigrade. I will just see what gives the best result  then.
>
>
> With regard to the ignition settings, well.. if  I adjust it to spec
> (10BTDC) the engine starts idling lumpy. A little tweaking with the two
> idle mixture screws on the car bring improvement but it doesn't run as
> smooth as with the previous setting of 16 BTDC! Btw, the car came with a
> brandnew Edelbrock carburetor and a Petronix electronic ignition!
>
> So the person who installed the Petronix was happy with that kind of
> pre-ignition I guess. The engine starts very easy, when it is cold it
> always starts within seconds and with a hot engine (after a long run for
> e.g.) it only takes a little longer. The engine stays cool and is in its
> normal temperature area on the dial and so is the oilpressure. I don't
> think the timingchain has worn very much cause I don't hear any rattling
> :)
> I never noticed any pinging (always use the best quality fuel, in my
> country that is Shell V-power) so I think the vibration damper might have
> slipped then.
>
>
> To be sure, how does one notice that for sure and who do you correct
> it???
>
> Thanks in advance (speaking about advance...),
>
>
> Robert
>
>
> Op Do, 15 juni, 2006 1:58 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>
>> The oil in your car should be changed even though it has only gone 500
>> miles. With little use, the oil should still be changed at least once a
>> year. A quality SAE 30 will work fine. 10w-40 is fine too. If the
>> engine has decent oil pressure, and sounds good both cold and warm,
>> don't worry about it. Keep it clean and full. If this car was being
>> driven everyday and at highway speeds there might be a reason to fine
>> tune the brand and type of engine oil. Modern multi-grade detergent oil
>> will work fine in a 1960 Imperial.
>>
>>
>>
>> The timing should be set per the specifications in the FSM. The
>> exception to this would be if under that setting the car doesn't run
>> correctly. The most common problem would be spark knocking due to
>> today's fuels. To correct this, timing would be retarded slightly. The
>> other reason that the FSM timing spec might not be suitable is if the
>> timing chain is worn or the vibration damper has slipped/been replaced
>> causing the timing marks to become inaccurate. All of these scenarios
>> result in the need for "road timing" the car. That means that you get it
>> close, then drive the car and adjust the timing by trial and error. You
>> need to be careful as incorrect timing can/will ruin the engine.
>> Basically, if it runs good,
>> doesn't spark knock, and cranks over easy cold and warm its pretty
>> close. Based on what you stated in your note, the timing was probably
>> fine right where it was. If you had noticed that it was difficult to
>> crank the engine when it was at running temperatures, after a gas fill
>> up for example, and/or noticed pinging, that would be sufficient reason
>> to adjust the timing.
>>
>> Just because the car is 47 years old, don't assume that the engine has
>> been overhauled. The engine could still run very well if it was not
>> rebuilt, but had been taken care of properly by all of its owners. In
>> the absence of service records, unless you take it apart, you may never
>> know what has been done.
>>
>> I am sure that you will get a lot of very technical advice regarding
>> both questions, and most of it will be very good. In 35 years and over
>> 2,500,000 miles of driving, the above general information has served me
>>  well. The only enigines that I have owned that required overhauling
>> were that way when I bought them. Otherwise, my cars have remained good
>> runners by using suitable oils and gas, along with proper tune up and
>> maintenance.
>>
>> Paul W.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:28:35 +0200 (CEST)
>> Subject: IML: Two questions about the 413 engine of a 1960 Imperial
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to hear your expertise about two questions I have with
>> regard to my 413 engine (1960 Imperial).
>>
>> Here is the story, I bought last summer in California a great 1960
>> Imperial and after bringing it to Europe where I live (the Netherlands)
>> I
>> started to make the car ready for use on the road.
>>
>> I don't know the history of the car, I only know that it is a repo car.
>>  I bought it from a bank that had it for sale at an auction.
>> As far as I can see and judge the engine must be a rebuild one, cause it
>>  is running powerful and smooth (can't imagine that I wouldn't have
>> been overhauled in 46 years).
>>
>> I only have driven the car so far for a 500 miles or so and now it is
>> ready and legally approved to use at a regular base (passed all the
>> essential tests at the local DMV this monday!)
>>
>> Now we come to my first question: since I own this car almost a year
>> now I
>> think it is time to do an oil change allthough I only have driven 500
>> miles with the new oil that was poured in last summer in the US.
>>
>> What I would like to know is what kind of oil I should buy: a modern
>> 10W40
>> or a straight classic SAE 30 oil. From all the stories at the repair
>> side of the club webpages I learned that a modern multigrade won't do
>> any good because of the very light base oil that is used (SAE10..).
>> Thank you
>> Dick
>> for explaining that issue clearly as always!! But is it safe to use SAE
>> 30
>> singlegrade in a much colder environment then California??
>>
>>
>> I would not drive the car at winters when it is freezing, but mainly on
>>  shiny days with temperatures between let's say 50 and 80 degrees
>> outside temperatures. Would I be safe then or is 50 degrees to low to
>> safely use SAE30?
>> At the moment the engine is using a little oil, allthough I don't see
>> any leaks or smoke at the tailpipes. I am almost sure the workshop that
>> checked the car before delivery to me simply put a modern 10W40 in it so
>> that might explain a lot..
>>
>> My next question is about how much pre-ignition is allowed on our
>> beloved 413 engine?
>> When I checked the timing last weekend prior to bring the car for its
>> final check to the local DMV, I noticed that is has a massive 16 degrees
>>  BTDC timing!!
>> The FSM says that the timing should be 10 degrees BTDC but when I
>> readjust the timing to that amount I experienced a severe powerloss :(
>> For the
>> book "How to repair big block Mopar engines" by Don Taylor I learned
>> that it is safe to start with 12 degrees BTDC and then check if the
>> engines "pings".. Well, I have heard no pinging with even 16 degrees
>> BTDC and the engine is running very smooth then (a lot smoother at idle
>> then with 10 degrees BTDC timing) and has lots and lots of power.
>> Trotlle
>> response is very impressive with that kind of pre-ignition set.
>>
>> But will I be safe with 16 degrees BTDC ?? If memory serves me well the
>>  same Don Taylor also mentioned that you should never go beyond the
>> limit of +/- 4 degrees then the factory given 10 degrees of
>> pre-ignition. That means that 14 degrees BTDC should be the limit for my
>> engine?
>>
>> What is your advice on both subjects??
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks for your thoughts!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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