I have found on older cars that the timing marks are seldom correct. I believe that the part of the damper with the marks can slip causing the marks to move. I have always used a method called road timing. This is basically trial and error. I set everything else the way it should be, and then guess at the timing based on idle quality. Then I go from there, drive and adjust, until the car has good acceleration, smooth idle, and no spark knocking.
A few years back, I converted my 1980 Lincoln from a computerized ignition, to the old style with vacuum advance. I changed the ignition wires to fit the sequential firing distributor, which replaced the stock cross firing one, and I also timed the car blind. Since the timing wasn't adjustable with the old ignition system, there are no timing marks what so ever on the damper. First, I set the engine so that #1 was at top dead center (TDC) and installed the distributor accordingly. This was necessary in order to make sure it was in the right place. After that, I road timed the car. I run this car on regular gas, and have driven it over 100,000 miles since changing the ignition. The car runs great, gets good mileage, and the computer just sits there dumb and happy.
I explained this to show that it is possible to time the car correctly without using the timing marks.
Hey David,
Thanks for your very interesting post!
Especially the last part of your message make me read it twice :)
You see, I don't believe me eyes too when it comes to set the ignition
timing. When I bought the car last year I found the initial timing set at
16 degrees BTDC...
When I adjusted it back to factory specs (10 degrees) it runs NOT Ok.
I experienced a severe power loss so I set it back to the former 16
degrees setting.
So far so good, but how can I determine the real initial timing that is
set this way??
>From previous messages I have learned that the pully with the timing mark
on it must have slipped (maybe someone can explain how that is possible?)
on the balancer.
I still haven't found the source for an unstable idle, it is like someone
is playing with the accelerator pedal all the time (you know, like someone
that is impatiently waiting for a traffic light). Can this also have to do
something with the fact that the pulley has slipped at the harmonic
balancer?
I think a good start will to find the correct timing mark on the pulley
and to erase the old one.
What is the best way then to find the EXACT TDC of cilinder 1 ??
Is there a tool that I can use for this job?
Thanks,
Robert
Imperial Crown 4 door HT 1960
Op Wo, 11 oktober, 2006 11:44 pm, schreef David Whitney:
> The harmonic balancer is not engine specific IF IF IF IF IF your engine
> is internally balanced. This is an important concept. The '63 big block
> is internally balanced, as the cast crank was not introduced in the RB
> engine until nearly a decade later. The 413 passenger vehicle engine was
> never produced with a cast crank. '70s RVs and trucks, maybe.
>
> The rule of thumb is forged crank engines are internally balanced, cast
> crank engines are external. If you have one of the exceptions in your
> Imperial, you are already savvy and don't need to be reading this.
>
>
> Externally balanced engines are identifiable by the presence of small
> blobs of metal near the outside circumference of the balancer. That's
> how they are "balanced", and there is a relationship between that
> specific balancer and that specific engine.
>
> Balancers do go bad when the rubber starts to deteriorate. The early
> symptoms look like your timing is going bad -- pinging, rough idle, loss
> of power, technicolor smoke, frogs falling from the sky, etc.
>
> A parts book and an interchange manual will steer you toward the proper
> P/N for your application. There is no reason to refurbish a balancer
> unless you have a diagnosable psychiatric disorder that is commonly known
> by its initials. Buy new and be happy.
>
> To avoid worrying about your rubber, you can upgrade to a fluid damper.
> More expensive, more durable.
>
>
> When you change the balancer, you MUST be certain that the TDC mark (the
> one you use to set timing) is actually pointing to 0 on the plate affixed
> to the timing chain cover when cylinder 1 is at EXACT top dead center on
> the COMPRESSION cycle. The most common mistake is getting it 180 degrees
> out. Having it off by a few degrees will merely make it difficult to set
> the timing because you won't want to believe your eyes when you see how
> many degrees initial advance you have.
>
> Some of what I have written is merely interesting. The important
> sentences have words in CAPS. Not abbreviations... words.
>
>
>
> Happy motoring,
>
>
> David
>
>
> '91 K-Imperial driver
> '66 LeBaron dual air and every option known to man
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
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