Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed

["Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Paul (and all the others that have helped me so far ofcourse!),

I have checked out the bulb and bulbholder last night, cause it sounded to
good to be true that the poor insulation of the housing was giving
trouble.
And unfortunately for me, the bulb is a double contact one so it doesn't
matter that the housing of the bulb is grounded.
Unless there is an internal shortage in the bulb,  I will check that out too.

Thanks,

Robert


Op Do, 19 oktober, 2006 5:22 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
> I could be wrong, but I believe that this is a single contact bulb with
> the socket acting as ground. Therefore, the housing should be grounded to
> the body, and would not be insulated from it.
>
> Paul W.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 2:29 AM
> Subject: Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed
>
>
>
>
> Yes Paul,
>
>
> Thanks again and too bad indeed that you don't live around here :)
> Maybe you have read another interesting post about this subject in the
> meantime, stating that the insulation of the fixture itself maybe at fault
>  here! I never realised but the fixture must be ofcourse insulated from
> the body, otherwise there would be a permanent connection to ground! That
> is, if one of the contacts of the bulb is also connected to the metal
> housing of the bulb. I don't know if that is the case with American
> bulbs, overhere in Europe we use bulbs with one central contact and the
> housing is the other contact.
>
> It would be interesting however to find the source of all this trouble
> and ofcourse I will keep y'all updated!
>
> Thanks for all your help,
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 10:19 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>
>> I read another reply to this earlier concerning a '63 Imperial and an 8
>>  track player. The poster mentioned his dome light did this due to a
>> problem with a fuse, and also that the mounting for the player was
>> changed to be away from the fuse panel. I think that the mounting of
>> the player was actually the problem and that somehow the hard ware or
>> the player came into contact with something in the fuse panel, causing a
>>  short circuit. A bad fuse doesn't cause a short, but rather an open.
>>
>> I don't know where the short in this car might be. It would seem from
>> the discussion about the '63 mentioned above, and the story that I wrote
>>  about my 1948 Lincoln Continental, that the short could be (and
>> probably is) quite unrelated to the specific wiring to the dome light.
>> This light
>> is mounted to the body of the car. A short elsewhere in the body (even
>> under the hood, in a door jamb, or in the steering column) might
>> somehow complete the dome light circuit, causing it to light up even
>> though the switches have not been activated. It is not a good circuit,
>> or even the correct one, but a completed circuit it must be.
>>
>> I am not an electrical engineer, but I can speak from experience. A
>> light burning at half power without closing any switches means that
>> there is a short. The wiper system has its own protections, so I think
>> that if your wiper problem was caused by a short, it would blow a fuse
>> or kick the breaker to the parking mechanism, and not remain shorted
>> allowing something like this to occur. Possibly there could be some body
>> wiring that has shorted. That can only be found by inspecting the
>> insulation on everything. I would suggest that if there is a short in
>> the body someplace, it could effect the performance of everything,
>> enough to make things act strangely or not at all, even the wipers.
>>
>> If all the switches are open, and the light is on, the circuit has
>> somehow been completed. I can't really help find it because I am not
>> there. Possibly another poster has had the dome light come on at half
>> power for some reason. If so, maybe they will pipe up.
>>
>> Paul W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 6:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: IML: Dome Light On Half Power W/O Switches Closed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OK Paul,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your very clear explanation (as always!) Here is the
>> situation and my opinion (please correct me if I am wrong..): There is a
>> purple wire running through the dome light, this is the positive 12 volt
>> wire that is going to the bulb. To complete the circuit (and make the
>> domelight working) we need a ground. This ground is supplied by a couple
>> of yellow wires, 2 of them are coming from the rear door switches and
>> one is coming from the manual switch in the headliner.
>>
>> Even with these 3 wires disconnected from their switches, the light
>> still shines at half power or so.
>>
>> So something is providing ground to this circuit.. Richard Burgess was
>> so kind to point me at two connection points were those yellow wires
>> come togehter, one is at the left rear wheel well and the other is under
>> the headliner close to the manual switch.
>>
>> I couldn't find anything wrong with the connection point at the rear
>> wheel well so I guess the yellow wiring under the headliner is at fault
>> here? Maybe this connection point is grounded somehow??
>>
>>
>> Strangely enough when I remove the bulb, to prevent that my battery is
>> running flat, and place it back after a couple of days everything seems
>> to be normal again. The light only comes on then when a backdoor is
>> openend or the manual switch is operated, but after half an hour or so
>> the bulb is shining continuously again at half power..
>>
>> Talking about electric gremlins!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Any thoughts, anyone....???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 1:37 pm, schreef randalpark@xxxxxxx:
>>
>>
>>> I really think that this dome light issue is related to some kind of
>>> an electrical short circuit. It has been explained that this light
>>> comes on even if the doors and light switch are not activated. That
>>> means that the circuit is being completed someplace else. It has to
>>> be, or the light can't work. I know it sounds wierd, but this short
>>> might not be in the wiring to the light itself.
>>>
>>> A simliar situation in my '48 Lincoln Continental resulted from a
>>> grounded wire under the dash. In this case, the dome light became
>>> brighter as I increased the engine RPMs. At one point, it would go
>>> out until the RPMs fell back down to that level. I haven't mentioned
>>> this previously because the car is six volt positive ground.
>>> Nonetheless, it
>>> takes a completed circuit to make the light come on. Once I found the
>>> short, the light functioned normally, and so did the rest of the car.
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 1:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: IML: Progress of a sort on the '60 LeCrown
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for your kind suggestion!
>>> I will check the fusebox then to see if something is wrong there.
>>> Might well be the case, cause about the same time my dome light stays
>>> on at half power my wiper motor stopped working... Might be an
>>> coincidence, but who knows?
>>>
>>> I will check out the fusebox this weekend!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Op Wo, 18 oktober, 2006 4:09 am, schreef john sadowski:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The dome light at half power sounds like a fuse is bad. On my first
>>>>  63,
>>>> I
>>>> had an 8 track player mounted directly below the fuses. Well , one
>>>> day the dome light wouldn't go out & it was shining less then full
>>>> power. Opening the doors caused the problem to move to the map
>>>> light. After
>>>> nearly pulling my hair out, I discovered the bad fuse. I put the 8
>>>> track back in the same place & it happened again. After the 2nd
>>>> time, I
>>>> relocated the 8 track & no further problem. John ----- Original
>>>> Message
>>>> -----
>>>> From: richard burgess
>>>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:24 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: IML: Progress of a sort on the '60 LeCrown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since we're all chiming in on our '60s I thought I would throw in
>>>> another update.
>>>>
>>>> If you have paid attention to the saga, a big milestone has been
>>>> made. I have a brand new correct windshield installed, finally!  It's
>>>> so beauutiful.  I have most of the stainless back on but of course
>>>> had one of the header clips break.  Fortunately I have had parts
>>>> cars. The
>>>> trim slid around a bit so it took a couple tries to get everything
>>>> rights.  I am ready to install the dynamat insulation on the roof
>>>> and begin windlacing installation.  I have started installing
>>>> weatherstripping on the doors.  I seriously wonder how well these
>>>> cars were sealed in the first place.  The original weatherstripping
>>>>  was crushed in many places leading me to believe it never quite
>>>> went the direction it was intended even when new.  As soon as the
>>>> headliner goes in I can start on the carpet and installing the
>>>> interior which is already finished.
>>>>
>>>> The engine and transmission have now both been overhauled a second
>>>> time due to botched work the first time.  My Dad is coming down next
>>>>  week and we are going to get the drivetrain installed.  This
>>>> should all go very qwickly as we have now done it once before!  I
>>>> really plan on finishing the car sometime next Spring.  this is my
>>>> fourth year in this frame up restoration.  We are then going to get
>>>> the front sheetmetal on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then the real troubleshootinng can begin.  Once everything is
>>>> hooked up I can see what does and does not work.  I have laboriously
>>>> added a factory original power lock system from a parts car using
>>>> the original wiring harness and nos transformers.  I still need one
>>>> actuator for the driver's door.   It will be things like this that I
>>>> am dying to know if they actually work.
>>>>
>>>> It's going to be looking like a car again soon!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Burgess
>>>> '60 Crown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Hi Donn,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ahhh, the joys of owning and maintaining a 1960 Imperial...
>>>> Been there, done that and as a matter of fact.. Still do!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it great fun to find yourself under the dash upside down (not
>>>>  too easy when you are size XXL :) trying to repair something that
>>>> is hidden there?
>>>>
>>>> Right now I am trying to fix the wiper motor, it suddenly stopped
>>>> working and haven't found out yet what is wrong. Since both the
>>>> switch and the wiper motor are really hard to accesss this aint a
>>>> job for the faint hearted!
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is that the EL dash lighting system from time to
>>>> time fails to work, I have already thrown in a new (=rebuild) power
>>>> pack but the dash still gets dark every now and then (after a few
>>>> days everything is working again for an hour or so..) Must be one of
>>>> the gauges that is shorting out I guess, so in a short time I will
>>>> finding myself again under the dash pulling white leads from the
>>>> gauges to find out which one is guilty.
>>>>
>>>> Then we have the strange problem with the dome-light, it stays on
>>>> when the doors are closed.. And even stranger it shines it's light
>>>> at half power or so. There must be a shortcircuit to ground (and no,
>>>> the doorswitches are ok and so is the manual switch: with all those
>>>> switches disconnected the dome light is still working at half
>>>> power..) but I haven't found out yet where.
>>>>
>>>> I learned from Richard Burgess that there is a connectionpoint
>>>> under the headliner, running from the manual switch to the domelight
>>>> and then to left rear wheel well where it connected to the
>>>> doorswitches, so problably the shortcircuit is in this area...
>>>>
>>>> Apart from all these electrical problems (the electrical system of
>>>> the 60 model year isn't of the same quality as the rest of the car if
>>>> you ask me) the car drives beautifully. Running strong and is
>>>> shifting gears perfectly, all I have to do in this aspect is to sort
>>>> out a rough idle. I might be in for a new harmonic damper since the
>>>> timing mark seems to have slipped..
>>>>
>>>> So enough work to do, but it is worth every minute of time that I
>>>> have spend so far to make the car better then it was before I bought
>>>>  it:) It
>>>> is fun, and to see all those faces of people looking at a car that
>>>> they have never seen before...Well, it makes it all worth I guess!
>>>>
>>>> So Donn, keep up the good work and keep it runnin'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>> 1960 Crown 4 door Hardtop
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op Di, 17 oktober, 2006 5:16 am, schreef Donn Reese:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In fits and starts the Imperial is getting more roadworthy, but
>>>>> good grief is it putting up a fight! Maybe it's just tired and
>>>>> WANTS
>>>>> to go sit in a pasture forever. I've certainly been ready to
>>>>> oblige a couple times recently.
>>>>>
>>>>> The heater fan was making a loud scraping noise and the heater
>>>>> control valve had been bypassed so I decided to pull the heater
>>>>> and at least fix the fan. I was surprised how easy the heater unit
>>>>> was to remove, just three screws. Turns out the plastic housing on
>>>>> the outside face of the squirrel cage had deformed inwards
>>>>> pressing against the squirrel cage itself. I used my heat gun to
>>>>> heat up the plastic then pushed the face out, reforming from a
>>>>> concave to a convex (btw, it's pretty crappy plastic). But it's
>>>>> much quieter now and I didn't have to cut a hole in the housing.
>>>>>
>>>>> With that fixed I removed the heater control valve and (assuming
>>>>> it was just froze up with corrosion) proceeded to lubricate it and
>>>>>  get the valve working again. I reinstalled it and hooked up the
>>>>> heater hoses and fired up the car. That's when I found out why it
>>>>>  had been bypassed, it leaks. Soooo, I bypassed it again and will
>>>>>  have to scout around for a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I discovered the cause of the slow turn signals at idle that I
>>>>> reported here recently.....bad flasher. I put a new one in and now
>>>>>  it works regardless of idle. Seems strange to me though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amongst all of this, last week the speedometer started making a
>>>>> horrendous noise and the needle would jump around. The OIC archive
>>>>>  came in handy, found the same symptoms there....who would have
>>>>> guessed you have to lubricate the speedo head periodically.
>>>>> Definitely a new
>>>>> one on me. Especially surprising considering they don't make it
>>>>> easy to get any of the instruments out to do any kind of
>>>>> maintenance.
>>>>>
>>>>> I made another little test run down the highway and back and
>>>>> everything seems to be fine for now. Let's hope it stays that way
>>>>> as we're now getting frost at night and working outside is getting
>>>>>  chilly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Donn Reese
>>>>> 1960 Custom 4dr hdtp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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