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Very good info. I just sent an email out to the list to search for "the rest of the story".
There is no floating power engine mount for my 56, and the rest of the your explanation tells the story.
I do have a 277 with 187 hp (single 2 bbl and single exhaust) and the manual speaks the truth that there was a 200 hp engine and your info suggests it was also a 277, but with a 4bbl and a dual exhaust.
Which means... the waterpump gasket in my timing cover kit is the wrong one, not that I have a different engine. That's ok, I should replace the pump anyway.
Thanks for all your help.
Matt
Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well... the DeSoto & Plymouth story, pg. 200, states, "Floating power engine mountings were not mentioned in publicity, but they appeared in final versions on the carryover 6 and 270-cubic-inch V8." So if you have a floating power front mount, that would suggest a 270. It's a wishbone-shaped mount with single rubber mounting under the water pump and two legs mounted on the front crossmember.
The same publication also states,
"Of four Hy-Fire V8 versions, the most brilliant was reserved for the Fury only. It had a bore and stroke of 3.81 x 3.31 inches, displacement of 303 cubic inches, 9.25:1 compression ratio, super 4-barrel carburetion and a maximum output of 240 horsepower at 4,800 rpm. The two middle versions, also wholly new, had a bore and stroke of 3.75 x 3.13 inches, 277 cubic inch displacement and 8:1 compression ratio. The top middle engine had a 4-barrel carburetor and dual exhaust system, produced 200 horsepower at 4,400 rpm and was optionally available for all four lines. The other middle version, with 2-barrel carburetor and single exhaust, turned up 187 horsepower at 4,400 rpm and was the standard V8 for Belvedere and Suburban models. The junior member of the V8 family, not a new design, had a bore and stroke of 3.63 x 3.256 inches, 270 cubic inch dissplacement, 8:1 compression, 2-barrel carburetor, single exhaust system and put out 1!
80
horsepower at 4,400 rpm. It was the standard V8 for Plaza and Savoy cars."
MoToRS Manual agrees with the above.
There are some other guys on the FL list with '56 Plymouths, Nick Sperduto has a Belv and Alan Faultus just sold his Belv.
Curious, the MoToRS Manual has the '55 as 260 cubic inch, 7.6:1 compression, 167 hp with 2v and 177 with 4v, BUT the DeS-P Story has "three variations which delivered 157, 167 and 177 horsepower, all at 4,400 rpm.
I've put a '55 Plymouth 260 in a '56 Dodge, replacing a 270, years ago. The '56 Dodge 270 did not have floating power mount but the '55 Plymouth did.
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '42 DeSoto, '66 Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1956 Plaza 277 v8 removal
Great, now where cookin.
I'm a little new to the internet acronyms.
I checked this morning and the serial # is on the left front face and is P29 188000.
The casting # is 1618729 and is on the right front face.
The manual states the 277 has 170 HP.
It also states the serial # for the 180 and 200 HP engines (P29) are located on the left
front face.
That's the discrepency, do I have a 277 with 170, 180, or 200 HP. And, what are the corresponding engine sizes (CU. IN.), or are they just modified for more HP or, is it not correctly stated (for a Plymouth) in the service manual.
Also, on ebay there are some pics of 56 ply parts, one pic shows the engine pretty well.
Seller states it's a 260, but it also has the solid intake. There are, however, some other differences.
My car was produced in LA if that has anything to do with it.
Do you know of anyone with the answers?
Thanks for the feedback. Matt
Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
IMHO= in my humble opinion... or in this case information maybe horribly off.
You've described a 277 all right. The info I have, from Don Butler's DeSoto-Plymouth Story and MoToRS Manual, says 270 was the "standard" V8 in Plaza and Savoy and that the 277 was "standard" V8 in the Belvedere and optional in other models.
Your Allpar explanation sounds plausible. I've wondered if the 270 was a leftover '55 Dodge engine as the spec's are almost identical.
IIRC [if I recall correctly] the serial # on the 270 would be near the valley pan and the 277 left front face of block.
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '42 DeSoto, '66 Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1956 Plaza 277 v8 removal
What does IMHO stand for?
I'm pretty sure that the engine has never been replaced, or anything else for that matter. But it is certainly possible. As for what originally came in the car, I've found several resources that state the 277 was in the 56 Plaza. The 270 produced for the first half and the 277 for the second half year of production. The 277 was used to reduce cost as it shared same crank and rods as the 303. Source is; http://www.allpar.com/history/inside/commentary.shtmlIs this a reputable source, I've seen it in other places too?
I checked the the engine size based on info I've found. I'm nearly positive it's a 277. The manual I have shows a solid intake manifold (front to rear and side to side) as the 277 which is what I have, and the 270 with a valley pan.
Nearly positive is not fully positive.
Where on the engine should I look for the # to be certain?
Thanks,
matt
Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
IMHO, lifting the engine would be easier than trying to line up the bell housing again.
Not to be a smartass, but unless you've replaced the engine, the standard V8 for the '56 Plaza was a 270 ci. There's a difference. Worth checking the engine number before you buy parts.
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '42 DeSoto, '66 Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: [FWDLK] 1956 Plaza 277 v8 removal
Hey everyone,
Small problem. I'm working on my 1956 plymouth plaza - 277 3 spd.
Found a coolant leak between the timing cover and block. To remove the front cover, needed to loosten the oil pan. Broke the pan gasket and I don't see any way of getting the pan out w/o lifting the engine. GREAT! (please let me know if there is another way - without cutting my front cross member) To disconnect the bell hsg from the block, all of the bolts can be reached "easily" enough, except one. I removed the dust cover from the trans and found one dirty little bolt on the lower pass side, up inside of the bell hsg. I can just reach it with a long wrench and I did get it loose. But, before I get it all of the way out, is this bolt actually a guide pin? I'm not sure that even if I can get it out all the way that I'll be able to get it back in again. It doesn't look like there's enough room to completely remove it (in between the flywheel and the interior wall of the bell hsg).
So, do I have to lift the engine to remove the pan, and, is this a bolt or a guide pin?
Anyone else out there who's done this before, any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks everyone,
Matt
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