[FWDLK] dual masters- was RB 383 cam
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[FWDLK] dual masters- was RB 383 cam

Here's a scenario... you have a perfectly maintained single master brake system in your 57 Saratoga, while trying to tune in your restored AM radio, you look up while driving and see its too late! you just ran over an old guy crossing the street!!! he flies of the top of the car but his walker went under and folded and rolled, and subsequently caught and tore out your rear flexible hydraulic line! now you have no brakes and proceed to broadside a bus full of illegal immigrants, you go through the windshield upon impact due to lack of belts, airbags, and brakes, the bus flips, and all the passengers burn to death, though one good event took place lightening the burden on taxpayers, an old man, his walker, your car, and bodily well being were compromised! If you had a dual master, you may have still hit the old guy, but not the bus... now single masters don't seem so bad!
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Vedder <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: L-FORWARDLOOK <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam

LOL (not)....if they failed, they were not properly maintained, or overhauled, to prevent such
failures from having occurred.


Neil Vedder

On 8/4/2014 4:37 PM, Ray Jones wrote:
The idea here is that with Dual MC, you have 2 brake systems. Not much trouble to plumb, using the tubing and components from a later year car, it's a big safety upgrade.
And, yes, I have had several MC's fail over the too many years I've been driving these old jewels.
You said you had a wheel cylinder fail, giving you a brake problem. With a dual system, you would still have the other half to get home on.
A total upgrade with calipers and rotors on the front, and better yet on the back also is a real improvement and brings the car up to highway cruising safety standards.
Ray in Mena, AR


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Jim <0000093b5b69d73c-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I know it's possible for brake MC to fail but in 50 years of driving I myself have had brakes fail only once and it wasn't the MC, it was a front wheel cylinder and I don't know anyone else who has ever had a MC fail.  Wear out enough that they had to pump the brakes, yes, but they knew it and it caused no problems.   It seems like a silly thing to worry and obsess over when you consider that the entire old car is a death trap compared to todays cars.
 
Jim

From: Richard Whelan <rwhelansr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam

Let's see, 68 Barracuda Formula S with dual pot power disc brakes, 57 Dodge pick up with single pot original brakes, 65 Rambler Marlin with dual pot power disc brakes, and a 59 Rambler Custom sedan with single pot drum brakes so I guess we are on the fence with this one, but I can tell you which ones I am more comfortable driving in todays traffic. 

Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam

Here’s the Mobil page:
 
 
It lists ZDDP as ppm, not percentage like Valvoline’s website.  It’s only the 15W-50 that’s got high ZDDP.
 
--Roger van Hoy
 
From: Greg C
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
I've been using Mobil 15w-50. Here's what Richard Ehrenberg recommends. Full story in the Oct 2010 issue. Mopar Action On-line - Tech Questions  They'll sell you the back issue

image




Mopar Action On-line - Tech Questions
HOME IN PRINT TECH EXTRAS CONTACT Tech Question Robert Zieller, Middletown CT, 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 Hi Rich, I need to replace the front brake r...

Preview by Yahoo


 


On Sunday, August 3, 2014 7:31 PM, Neil Vedder <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Valvoline 20/50 Racing; lots of ZDDP, for me.

And, even, Hemmings has gotten into the act, by selling synthetic
(which is really over-kill, IMHO) ZDDP-loaded motor oil.

Whether ZDDP is needed or not, in a lightly-used engine (like all of ours
are)....it is 'cheap' insurance and can not hurt anything, but our
pocketbooks---check Hemmings' 6-pack pricing (photo attachment).

Neil Vedder




On 8/3/2014 4:24 PM, Richard Whelan wrote:
We use Brad Penn, made in the old Kendall refinery in Bradford PA. Similar to Kendall GT-1 with plenty of ZDDP. Dick
 
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
Another approach is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil; it has more ZDDP. 
 
However, a friend showed me an article in the Packard Pelican or whatever it is that says VR-1 doesn’t have enough detergent.  I suspect it’s still more than oil 50 years ago.
 
--Roger van Hoy
 
From: Jim
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
I've found two easy ways to get the ZDDP back in the oil. One is to buy the Redline Break-In Additive and use about 3 oz of it with each oil change.  The other, even easier, is to buy a can of STP, which has the right amount of ZDDP in it, when you buy the oil and filter and put the STP in along with the new oil.  The advantage of the Redline is that it's actually a little cheaper per dose and is easy to poor.  The STP is thick and hard to pour.  But the STP is available anywhere so it's pretty convenient.
 
From: Bill Parker mailto:hemirr@xxxxxxxxx
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
Thanks for the input guys.  I agree about the oil.  I've driven the car a total of about 10 miles since buying it from another list member who also didn't drive it during his ownership I believe.  There is a receipt from a commercial garage showing a ring and bearing job, but the receipt has no date on it.  The inside of the engine is very clean and the oil isn't bad either so since that minor overhaul it must have been reasonably maintained, but of course with low ZDDP oil like we are all stuck with in the mainstream oils.  I'm thinking of using rotella once I'm back up and running since I don't have a converter to get clogged up with zinc. 
 
Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana, harboring of bunch of old and newer Mopars


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Neil Vedder <esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Oh, that must be absolutely true, because nobody in the old car
hobby knows about the effects of NOT having ZDDP in flat tappet
car engines.

And, of course, the ruined cam shafts render the car and its engine completely
unrepairable and worthless.

The car mechanics, in particular, hate the effects of having to work on these
damaged engines.

Neil Vedder



On 8/3/2014 12:05 AM, Dave Homstad wrote:
Bill,

You might give some thought as to WHY the cam has developed 3 bad lobes.
Here is a good article about how "OIL IS KILLING OUR CARS!!!!!".

Personnally, I think this is a plot by the EPA to get old cars off the roads quicker, by removing the ZDDP from our oils. 

Dave Homstad
56 Dodge D500


On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Bill Parker wrote:
 Hello all, I tore into the '60 Saratoga engine today, an RB 383, and as I suspected from the symptoms, it has a wiped camshaft.  One lobe is just a little nubbin', and two others are clearly half what they should be.  Seems like a simple cam swap is in order except of course for the small matter of early B/RB lifters and pushrods being different dimensions from the later ('66 and later?) stuff.  From a previous experience with putting a cam and lifter kit into a '65 engine, I think I recall that the late lifters are taller, and must use the late pushrods to compensate.  I could have it backwards, but in any case, I think the solution to using a late cam and lifter kit is using the late pushrods too.  I have several core 440 engines and I'm thinking, make a cam selection, buy the late style lifters with it, and use a set of the 440 pushrods (being that both my '60 383 and the 440's are RB engines with the same deck height).  Comments/cautions/suggestions?  This is not my hot rod and I plan to go with a pretty mild cam.
Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central Indiana, harboring of bunch of old and newer Mopars

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--
Ray Jones. Y'all come on down an see us. Ya hear?
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