[Chrysler300] Re: Big Wheels

["Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

John, I appreciate and respect your comments.  My only concern is that as compared to another 300 club that I know where there are often large number of judged cars, this club has extremely few judged in relation to the number of cars in the show.

Many like to drive and safely enjoy their cars, but do not wish the "scarlet letter tag" of tampering with the cars and changing them from the way that they were created by our maker.  As I suggested, even those judged cars that are entered could lose far more points then they do if all items and finishes were not exactly as they were when they left the factory.  To worry if a 56 B had its wire wheels or power seat when it left the factory is in my view causing many cars not to be entered in the show except as basically display only.  Even in "anal" Corvette shows, their is a judged Concour class, and a judged driven class.

I installed a 1957 rear end in my B to get a 2:92 rear axle ratio.  This was offered in 1956(or at least a 3.07 was).  I spent 6 years looking for this ratio for a 1956 housing and gave up.  However I was getting tired of listening to my solid lifters swapping holes at 70 MPH.  Heaven I will be banished, but I also installed a Torqueflite(out of a 1956 by the way) so I will now certainly be banished to the hinterlands.  I have also installed radial tires(safety and handling and ride).  So by the time judging was done, some pretty sloppy "correct" cars would be deemed the winner.  Sounds not like much fun to me, someone who enjoys the cars for what they should be, driven and shown.  I will stop now, my fingers are tired, I am going to go set in the PS that I installed in my B and listen to its T and C radio.  Just kidding I have not gone that far(yet).

Thank you again John

Roger Schaaf
300 B(kinda) Calyfornea
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Johnl 
  To: barber@xxxxxxxxx 
  Cc: Kathy Rook ; Roger Schaaf ; moparpjf@xxxxxxx ; paradise42@xxxxxxxxxxx ; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:26 PM
  Subject: Re: Big Wheels


  Well, her we go again!!  Below in red:

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Rich Barber" <barber@xxxxxxxxx>
  To: "Johnl" <john@xxxxxxxxx>
  Cc: "Kathy Rook" <kmrook@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <moparpjf@xxxxxxx>; <paradise42@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:41 AM
  Subject: Big Wheels


  > John:
  > 
  > Thank you for the thorough response, as per usual from you.  Before we 
  > let this drop, could you confirm the rim widths as published in the 
  > Chrysler shop manual.  5.5" for Windsor & NY (& 300, assumed), 6" for 
  > Imperial and 6.5" for Crown Imperial.  In all honesty I'd have to refer to my parts books as the memory just ain't what it use to be.  I do remember that the Imperial wire is 1/2 wider than the disc wheel.  I'll try to look it up tonight and reply tomorrow.  Also to answer Roger's question if any B's came with wires I think the answer is yes as they were not only a dealer option, but still a factory option.  Gil Cunningham and I have discussed this and I think he has documented some Letter Cars.  I've never done the "fingernail" test on real vs repro caps as it is simply not an issue to me.
  > 
  > I bought a nice set of rechromed Motor Wheel wire wheels from a Club 
  > member and they have the Bornstein repro caps.  After installing the set 
  > of Remington L-78-15 wide WSW's on the wheels (with new tubes), I noted 
  > the caps were a loose fit and made too much "music" while driving.  I 
  > was looking for an appropriate O-ring  to shim them up, but settled for 
  > a wrap of 1/4" sticky-sided foam weather strip applied to the back of 
  > the caps.  Cheapest fix so far!  I've also experienced this problem.  Duct tape solved the problem for me.  Also in years gone by when I had originals replated they were to tight and had to be sanded to make fit again.  In my first reply I didn't go into detail why I feel the repros are better so here goes.  Even the best plater is going to loose some crisp edges when buffing and if you know what you are looking at it is usually very visible.  The repros don't have this problem.  I think you can purchase the Coker example for about $30 each.  Try to get an original cap done to any kind of quality for this price.

  For removing these caps I've purchased a rubber hammer used for installing wheel covers.  On the back side it has a hook that works ideal for removing the wire caps.  Simply put the hook under the spinner ear and I place a towel between the rubber head and tire and they come off very easy.  This item was purchased through my local tire shop at around $15.00.

  > 
  > This query has generated the usual banter over judging.  I really like 
  > the looks of the wire wheels on my car, but am considering stripping and 
  > repainting the original rims and installing a different set of tires on 
  > them for judged Chrysler 300 meets.  I would need to repaint the center 
  > medallions for max. impact.  I respect the judging rules and have 
  > removed the cowl-mounted outside rear-view mirrors from my car to return 
  > it to as-shipped factory condition.  I replaced them with removable 
  > clamp-on mirrors mounted to the vent window frames.  Guess I will remove 
  > the nice clock I bought for the judged shows, also.   My answer to all of this is do what makes you happy.  I personally think to many people get hung up in the judging event.  I've never had any of my cars judged and don't plan to.  If someone thinks theirs is better than mine then more power to you.  I'm perfectly happy with what I've go and feel very fortunate to have them.  This past fall I was invited to a major Concours here in Southern California.  They wanted several of my cars and I said I'd be more than happy to do it but for display only.  They would not accept this so I said "Thank you, but no thanks".  My statements regarding the wheels and repro caps was simply to inform.  For those of you who want to push this further please address your issues to the head judge and that is certainly not me.  To many times people get so uptight regarding the judging and are so trophy hungry they forget what I think is the true meaning of owning the car.  To me the car has always been the "trophy" and sharing it with others is the imporntant thing.  I'd much rather have a person become more knowledgeable on a Letter Car by spending some time talking and showing them the car than tell them how many awards it has won.  Maybe I'm weard, but that is the way it is.
  > 
  > My tire research shows very few options for 8.00-15's.  So far only 
  > Coker seems to have them with 3" WSW's.@ $127/pop for their Coker 
  > Classic.  Seems like a high price to pay for an inferior tire.  The 
  > L78-15 Remingtons ride and handle quite nicely, but are probably 15-16 
  > years old with less than 1,000 miles on them.  I have Remingtons on our C300, 300B, 300C and T&C.  They work fine for me.  I put B.F. Goodrich Silvertowns on our F and simply don't like the way the car handles with them.  Also the same Goodrich in a different size went on our '55 Imperial and the ride and handling are excellet.  So far I've resisted the radial thing simply because I feel the price is much to high for a low end tire and really don't like to look.  I know a lot of folks use radials and are very happy with them.  Once again I revert back to my statement, "what makes YOU happy".

    May be time to replace 
  > them on general principles.  Any thoughts on having all the balance 
  > weights put on the inside of the wire wheels?  I had this done and 
  > notice no vibration problems, even with considerable weight.  Keeps the 
  > appearance of the wheel cleaner.  If you haven't figured it out yet I love wires and only our F doesn't have them.  I'm sure if the toilet seat weren't there or it was a G it would also be sportin' wires.  All of my wheels have the weights on the back and I have not had a problem.

  John Lazenby
  Southern California, just minutes from Disneyland
  1955 Chrysler New Yorker Deluxe Town & Country
  1955 Imperial Newport
  1955 Chrysler C300
  1956 Chrysler 300B
  1957 Chrysler 300C Coupe
  1960 Chrysler 300F Coupe
  1963  Volkswagen Beetle


  > 
  > 300-ly,
  > 
  > Rich Barber
  > Brentwood, CA
  > 1955 C-300
  > 
  > Johnl wrote:
  > 
  > >A couple of issues here.  First, if a 300B came from the factory with wires and it is in judging at a Chrysler 300 Club International meet then there is no issue.  If the wheels were added later the car is not correct as to the build sheet.
  > >
  > >Wire wheels were offered from 1953 through 1956 and there were three variations that I know of.   For sometime I though they were offered from 1951 up but Sherwood Kahlenberg pointed out to me that it was 1953 through 1956.   Thanks Sher, as I've always said our cars are a continuing learning process and no one has all of the answers.
  > >
  > >1.    Plymouth/Dodge with 48 spokes and the lacing was on the outer lip of the wheel like the T-Bird wires.
  > >
  > >2.    DeSoto/Chrysler also with 48 spokes but the lacing is further back in the wheel and this is also wider than the Plymouth/Dodge.  Both are a 15", 5 bolt on a 4 1/2" pattern.
  > >
  > >3.    Imperial wheels were 52 spokes with the same lacing as the DeSoto/Chrysler wheel but were wider.  These were 15" on a 5 1/2"bolt pattern.  Also they were used on DeSoto and Chrysler wagons, but I'm not sure about Plymouth and Dodge.  I've read and heard stories about a bulletin sent out via Chrysler that these wheels would not be offered after a certain date in 1955 on Imperials and Wagons.  My guess is it had something to do with a weight issue regarding these particular cars.
  > >
  > >Most of the repro wires for these cars I've seen are all done in 52 spoke version.  I have no idea why.  A few months ago I decided to install wires on our '55 NYer T&C and was lucky enough to find a set of newly finished correct original wheels.
  > >
  > >Last, a subject that has not been covered in any of this is the caps for all of these wheels.  There are two sources that I know of.  Bob Bornstein in Southern California was offering them and the product was excellent.  Now Coker Tire has them available.  It is my opinion that Bob's are nicer but at 60 mph you can't see the difference.  If you have a set of originals don't spend the time and money to replate them.  The repros are a far better way to go.
  > >
  > >John Lazenby
  > >Southern California, just minutes from Disneyland
  > >1955 Chrysler New Yorker Deluxe Town & Country
  > >1955 Imperial Newport
  > >1955 Chrysler C300
  > >1956 Chrysler 300B
  > >1957 Chrysler 300C Coupe
  > >1960 Chrysler 300F Coupe
  > >1963  Volkswagen Beetle
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >  
  > >
  > >  
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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