Re: [Chrysler300] Rebodying Anyone

["Roger Schaaf" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Agreed.  IMHO, a legal VIN should be the determining factor.  There are 
numerous known examples of Ferraris, Cobras and other such autos that are 
basically restored/built from a VIN.  Often these cars have almost been 
totally destroyed in racing or fire or some other calaminty.  It would be 
virtually impossible to determine if many of these rebuilt cars could be 
told from original if the work is well done.  Often I suspect that some are 
better cars than those are patched together with fibreglass and bondo and 
poorly accomplished restoration efforts.

Again as I have suggested before, many of these "perfect" 100 point or 1000 
point judged cars could be taken down by 25 percent if total factory 
originality was the key to a concour automobile.  Original body panels, 
paints, tires, glass, fabrics, belts, hoses are not available(and even if 
these products and components are reproductions, they still are not 
"factory").  Additionally, it is far to simple for an expert, to totally 
fake almost any historic automobile in not only appearance but also giving 
it complete and proper documentation(including fake VIN plates, engine block 
and frame stamping, paperwork).  Anyone have any idea how many counterfeit 
multi-million dollar masters are hanging in the Louvre Museums of the world 
and everyone, including viewers, experts and Curators believe they are the 
one and only original?

My feeling is that some have gone to extremes in our hobby in demanding 
"correctness" as it is too often impossible to prove anyway.  And the sorry 
thing is that fraud is pervasive and millions(billions?) of dollars are lost 
in this pursuit of numbers matching correctness.

Roger Schaaf
A mostly correct 300 B in Calyfornua
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <john_nowosacki@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <John@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <moparpjf@xxxxxxx>; 
<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Rebodying Anyone


> True confessions time-
> I put a windshield from some other 57 Chrysler in my C, since the original 
> was broken.  Is my car still legit?
> I also used 55 Windsor doors on my C300 restoration back in the 90's.
> I know the current owner is happier with them than he would have been with 
> the originals plus a gallon of bondo.
>
> I think as long as there is disclosure, it is then up to the individual.
> With today's prices, finding a nice southwestern Windsor or Saratoga 2dr 
> to drop onto this frame, coupled to some 57-59 front sheet metal, a 150 
> mph speedo off of ebay, interior and emblems from Goers and/or Chryslers 
> at Carlisle this summer, and you may have the least expensive way to have 
> your own 300C, if you really wanted one and couldn't afford it any other 
> way.
>
> I say good for the person who gets into the hobby this way, but I say 'No 
> way' to the speculator who tries to represent it as the original deal with 
> a restamped data plate and 392 from a New Yorker or Imperial.
>
> Look at the Year One and other catalogs selling repro sheetmetal for A, B, 
> and E bodies, not to mention how many places there are to get GM and 
> Mustang stuff.  The muscle car industry does not seem to have a problem 
> with non original sheet metal if BJ auctions are any indication.
>
> I just saw a car show on Spike (can't remember which show) where they 
> featured a 69 Camaro that was brand new- all new 
> body/bumper/frame/suspension, the works.  You can sit in your living room 
> with a VISA card (not mine) and order a whole car!
>
> I personally would think better of the car in question if it had a rust 
> free original 57 Windsor body on the frame rather than a 50% original 300 
> body with 300 ft of MIG welding wire piecing together 100 different patch 
> panels hand formed from late model stop signs and beer cans.  At least the 
> whole car would be made out of metal that was stamped in 1957 by Chrysler 
> Corporation.
> If you can swap out a door, hood, trunk lid, floor pan, quarter panels, 
> etc. on the way to your resto, I don't see why you shouldn't allow a whole 
> dog house swap.
>
> Like most things in this hobby, to each his/her own, I guess.
>
> John
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of John Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:47 AM
> To: moparpjf@xxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Rebodying Anyone
>
> Pete and all,
>
> I just received my May issue of Sports Car Market.  In the issue, there is 
> a
> blurb about a '50's era Maserati 300S with a note that none of the sheet
> metal (in the opinion of the author) is original to the car.  The car sold
> just south of 2 million.  I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.
>
> As a buyer, I would not be interested in owning one...BUT what constitutes
> 'crossing the line'???  Switching vin and data plates???  A complete
> rebody????  Extensive use of donor panels????  I certainly don't have an
> answer but have debated the issue many times with friends and fellow
> enthusiasts.  I had an old boss that would describe it as varying shades 
> of
> grey.
>
> The seller of the C chassis has tried several times listing it to no 
> avail.
> I think the title and tags are new to this listing although I might be
> mistaken on that point.
>
> Other hobbies have some oversight (such as coin collecting)....there 
> doesn't
> seem to be that general oversight body in automobiles.  Maybe there is a
> market opportunity there.
>
> JL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of moparpjf@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 6:57 AM
> To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [Chrysler300] Rebodying Anyone
>
> Hi Group:
>
>    I know we have had our discussions about whether or  to what extent
> rebodying our cars is acceptable, but for those of you who might  want to 
> go
> tot the extreme, I refer you to E-Bay auction # 8053357648, where you 
> will
> find a 300-C chassis for sale, together with the title and the VIN plate,
> and little more.
>
>    Assuming these are all legit - is it still a  C???
>
> Pete Fitch
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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