[Chrysler300] disk brakes versus orig 300 center plane brakes?!

[christopher beilby <thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I too must back Wayne and Bob's support for original 300C to I believe at least 300G factory drum brakes.
 
Apologies for overlong post following - please hit delete not if not interested.
 
And as I often try to adequately explain things in my often long posts (because it is like when someone says 'they are easy to find, they are just opposite the sandblasters', but then leave out they are indeed opposite, but '3 miles further on down the road' on "the opposite side", which in an area of small factories is a key point ommitted, but not so important if in farm area where there are just open paddocks opposite ?! - so I believe if you offer help, it is helpful if it easy to follow, rather than just enough to get you lost, or into trouble/confusion?) )
 
Very briefly - Australia adopted disc brakes before the US, and I am a strongest believer in disc brakes, just as seat belts are very sensible, especially if one has a car with a laminated windscreen that can/will cut your head off if you are thrown into it, and then fall back.
Some US 300 era cars have inadequate brakes, even before using in today's better braked traffic  - a friend had a V8 '57 Chev near new, and said in high speed country driving, they were great from 70-80 mph panic stops until you slowed down to about 15-20 mph, by which time they were out - totally gone, and he more than once rammed/ran into whatever at slow speed still remaining as he had no brakes left.  My 57 TBird has better brakes, but the pedal requires greater and greater force needed in repeated stops from say 70 mph.  Now my 300C is totally different - it has amazing feel, the push on the pedal is proportional to how fast you wish to pull up.  I often use my C, the TBird, and early 70s El Camino disc braked Ute/pickup, as three more common hack daily commuter drivers, near always in heavy peak hour traffic, at speeds 35mph, up to 70 mph road sections/parts.
 
Now the (factory) discs on the El C are great, impressive, they the later large single pot GM discs.  But where the 300C wins, is in a panic stop, I have never locked/slid the wheels as I have done in the El C.  And in the TBird, I would have hit the car that cut in front of me that I had maybe 2 secs to near stop from 30mph in feet - in the El C, I would have hit them-the car, in a cloud of white tyre smoke - in the C, I was more stunned how I stopped so easily/short, than the idiot other driver, who had also put of huge smoke clouds as he tried to fix his mistake when he too late realised he was going to hit me.  And it has happened repeatedly, this 300C brake miracle, from maybe 20 mph, right up to near 70 mph instances.
 
Chrysler of all the US car Companies were I believe 'engineering driven/obsessive' from their 1924 hydraulic brake 7 main bearing 6 cylinder sensations/product - and by 1957 they knew what a 375 bhp hemi in a car the weight of a 300 meant re brakes needed ?!
 
Drive a '57 Chevy, swerve it left and right at say 65mph, and you would be brave to contemplate a non straight panic stop from this speed on a narrow road, even with modern radials, let alone 50s crossplies.  Yet get/step into a '57 300, and such a similar thing/need, is so safe, steady, 'non pulse raising' - these 300s have the suspension to handle panic stops from high speeds - like they had angled anti dive front suspension geometry near a decade before the rest of the world woke uyp to it!!?
 
OK, asbestos brake lining material, as used until a decade or so ago until it banned, may have given better brakes new, but if one does their homework, for those who want repeated stops from above legal speeds, there are good drum brake lining 'non asbestos opions' out there - historic racing is booming, and non original discs are banned there, so plenty of racers are buying non asbestos top quality drum brake linings.
 
Pity I am not in US - I would put my driver 300C up against any rerasonable size disc brake car from say 60 mph, and also say 40mph, 20 mph, in a 'called out panic stop', as distinct from 'just hitting the brakes at some line/marker' when you expected it, and I'll bet my 300C pulls up way safer, if not in same distance - no bought over the counter non factory issue aftermarket disc I believe will ever give the feel that allows you to stop so fast without locking up wheels/tyres.
 
And this disc brake safe panic brake feel existed in my AC Cobra, V12 Lambo, 6 series BM, E Type Jag, etc ultra high performance cars, that I have owned and driven hard often/still since the late 60s - so I know what good disc brakes are, just as much as I know what brilliant drum brakes Chrysler started on their 300s with the '57 C.  Don't too quickly blame/trash your 300 factory brakes, look for what may be wrong, such as old restricted rubber hoses, cheap poor quaity lining material, wrongly adjusted booster pushrod, shoes not machined correctly to suit drums, etc. 
 
Sorry if I again said too much, but the factory drum brakes on my driver 300C, are to me as continually stunning in their effectiveness, as that mighty 392 hemi if set up right, that brilliant 'whack whack' responsive auto, and of course that Exner so right/perfect styling, and sheer safety of pushing that C hard and fast. Put discs on, and you are I believe selling your 300 short, never mind missing out on a true great part of what a 'centre plane braked' 300 was !??
 
Christopher in shower ridden southern Australia, and so cold with light snow cover where it usually rarely snows - but drought not broken yet, most dams still near empty.



To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:25:57 -0700Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Re:disk brakes for 57's and all with center plane btakes




I must second Wayne's comments on center plane brakes, but in my case theobservations apply to the '61 G. I had my G out for a test drive this pastJuly 4th weekend after I installed new KYB shocks, so I put the car throughthe paces. It felt good, stopped square and with full control. My master and brake cylinders and are all stock components relined withbronze inserts and silicone fluid installed in the system. All new flexhoses were used and he front drums were replaced with good used drums, onlycut .020" over, the originals had gone past the .060" limit so I did notreuse them. The shoes were relined at a local shop, Friction Materials,that still relines brakes and clutch discs. I brought them the drums andthey arced the relined shoes to the drums for a good fit. I always adjuststhe shoes per the manual and run the cam up tight, then back off only enoughfor the wheel to turn but the drums still lightly touch the shoes whenspinning the wheel. Brake performance is quite acceptable, but they will begin to fade afterseveral hard stops, or extended mountain driving, but that is a rareoccurrence for me.Bob J_____ From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] OnBehalf Of Wayne GraefenSent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:49 AMTo: Intl 300; bleahy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx: [Chrysler300] Re:disk brakes for 57'sAs the keeper of the '57 torch, every once in a while I must reply aboutinadequate brakes of the Chrysler Centerplane type.1. These brakes were fully adequate when new and are still adequate formodern traffic.Now, after 50 years, we have virtually lost the machine shop ability to arcgrind new linings to the size of the drums but there are still shops that doit. This fitting of shoes to drum is one of two critical concerns with thosebrakes. The second is that far too often, in the name of saving a few bucks,low quality shoe linings have been purchased and they simply don't grab.Of course there are possible other factors including the installation ofclose but incorrect shoes, wheel cylinders and master cylinders down throughthe cars history. There are also low quality brake hoses at parts houses andhobby suppliers again in the name of cost savings. Some mechanics don'tbother to properly adjust front wheel bearings even to equal their set fromside to side. And suspension wear is setting in lo these many miles.I love disc brakes too as they are superior, but even they only work rightwhen everything else is right. AAJ sells a fine kit with good quality parts.There are even better kits available for more money but some require achange to 15" wheels for caliper clearance.Wayne G[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 





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