There is some significant confusion in all that, but end result is
about
right. The cast iron torque flight has no flex plate, so crank changes
etc
obviously track that sort of; 61 and back, 62 and up. Guy in Vermont
that
makes 727 to 392 adapter has info there. More stuff too, diameter of
alloy
TF input shafts, spline counts, converter pilot diameters, brake
drums
etc. I do not now all that off top of head .It is not 8 vs six bolts
only,
plus later hemi had 8 bolts I think with flex plate . Spacer on back
of
engine or not.
62 -63 727 TF push button intact to later B block
is easiest way to go but
you get into park lever then. Enough from
me!
From: christopher [mailto:thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent:
Tuesday, March 03, 2015 5:21 PM
To: John Grady; 300C bought in bits; 'Richard
Osborne'; c300@xxxxxxx
Cc: 'Michael Moore'; 'Robert Merritt';
jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx; 'Rick Vitek';
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:
RE: [Chrysler300] 413 motor I/d help
Thank you to all that replied re
Motorhome 413 motors and alloy case trans
attached to it/them.
I was
originally trying to keep the original '59 Dodge push button set up,
and use
a trans that had the late 50s 8 bolt crank to convertor pattern, as
I found
later 383s etc used a 6 bolt pattern, and therefore if I used a
later 383, I
could not bolt it up to a handbrake drum type torqueflight.
So thanks to
all those that replied, I now know later build Motorhome 413s
use totally
different heads (angled plugs etc), plus visibly have a
huge/ugly water pump
set up on front of engine, and yes the exhaust
manifolds are clearly
different - look better than later 283/440, but cannot
be used a higher comp
non motorhome heads.
But it seems the alloy case torqueflight is a possible
'mate - bolt up' - to
the later 60s 6 bolt 383/440 crankshaft/motor? (383
started 1959 (as per my
Dodge) as an 8 bolt crank pattern, then in mid/late
60s? went to 6 bolt
pattern) - and if that is true, it gives us early 300
owners a way to use
the later/lighter alloy case 727 torqueflights in our
early 300s - BUT ONLY
IF USING THE early(late 50s into early 60s)/hemi 8 bolt
convertors, which I
guess might only be found in first alloy case
torqueflights - used maybe
about only 2 years?
So it likely easier just to
use a whole early 60s alloy case 727
Toprqueflight that still had handbrake
on rear, and totally forget Motorhome
one - only advantage with motorhome one
is having later/standard slip yoke
tailshaft end/driveshaft?
If any of
all this has been helpful to 300/413 equipped 300 owners, then we
all now
know a bit more,
thanks to all from early autumn
Australia,
Christopher
_____
To: d.verity@xxxxxxx;
reomotorsports1@xxxxxx; c300@xxxxxxx
CC: mmoore8425@xxxxxxx;
okbobwynmer@xxxxxxxxx; jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx;
rpvitek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx;
thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx;
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From:
Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 14:05:16
-0500
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 413 motor I/d help
Agree with Don;
there were special steam vents around ,next to, or over the
plug or exhaust
valve locations, matching holes in motorhome block ???. I
think I remember a
special head gasket; if you use wrong , common one it
blocks them, no end of
trouble. Regular 440 heads apparently pressurize
cooling system by boiling
locally at those locations under heavy continuous
loads, even though radiator
temp is not that high = loss of coolant .Memory
vague on this.
My main
reason for writing on this is the mention of 727 TF with E brake on
a 70
;(70!!!) Working with J-Y , and a motor home guy he knew, we found out
that
"Winnebago" used a 727 / E Brake drum setup---but unsure of years or
models.
; it has 4 bolts , not Detroit U joint junk, that mating part to
it on a
Winnebago mounts a regular big Spicer U joint to TF with E brake, ?
same TF
brake also used in 300's 62-63 era . We went so far as to copy one
of those
in a steel billet, never could find that part. ; Later I found out
that
Denny's driveshaft has that part , ( you must specify exact bolt
pattern)
lets you get rid of Detroit U joint for good. You then have a
truck type
slide spline in driveshaft proper . J-Y and I have done 3 of
these now,
problems gone. And a way to get 727 into a pre 62, if so inclined
, keeping
300 rear axle, trans e brake.
Other way is ~70 Challenger 8 3/4 axle
swap into 300 , also fits , 60 for
sure , gets the back wheel E brakes ,
allows use of later 727 w or w/o e
brake
john
From:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
'Don Verity' d.verity@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015
10:17 AM
To: Richard Osborne; Rich Barber
Cc: Michael Moore; Robert
Merritt; John Nowosacki; Rick Vitek;
christopher;
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 413
motor I/d help
Here is the response I sent to Chris regarding the motor
home 413.
Don
I have a motor home 413, and it is quite different
than a passenger car
model. It would be considered the industrial version.
The block is mostly
the same, except for lower compression. They had a double
roller timing
chain also. The heads were completely different. They have
additional water
outlets on the front that attach to a huge water pump
housing. The spark
plug location is also different, it looks more like a
small block set up.
The valves also use rotators in the retainers to promote
even wear. The
exhaust manifolds are also special with a header like
appearance and a 4
bolt flange on the end. They will not bolt to anything but
the motor home
head. Not a real desirable engine for a car unless you are
going to just use
the block and use some kind of boost. I'm going to use this
block in my E
which had a McCullooch supercharger installed when new at the
dealer level.
Mine is a 1970 version, and had the aluminum TF with the brake
on the back.
I had hardend valve seats installed in my G when the engine
was overhauled
10 years or so ago. They had no problem machining the valve
pockets to
accept the new seats.
I would be surprised if there was a
significant difference in the casting
for the truck 413 head vs the car
casting.
I will say that when I worked in one of the nations largest CPD
parts
dealerships (late '80's), we actually kept 413 motorhome exhaust
manifolds
in stock as they sold well, cracking was a big problem.
On
Mar 2, 2015, at 5:37 PM, 'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx
[Chrysler300]
<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I
read somewhere that it is risky to machine the heads in my ram K engine
for
hard seat inserts as there is not much "meat" under the lip and one
might cut
into the coolant passage. Any truth in that?
The RV/truck engine would
have a much different cam/carb/distributor advance
configuration for high
torque at low RPM and might be more susceptible to
higher operating
temperatures for long periods of time.
Most of the heat from the valve
heads can only flow to the coolant while the
valve is closed and sitting on
the seat. Testing in the engine lab helped
define the need for different
construction and coolant flow for different
conditions. Nowadaze, this is all
modeled on a computer which tends to
produce pretty good results, I
believe.
C300K'ly,
Rich Barber
Brentwood, CA
From:
Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of
Michael Mooremmoore8425@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015
1:57 PM
To: Robert Merritt
Cc: John Nowosacki; Rick Vitek; christopher;
<Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 413 motor I/d
help
Years ago when I experience my valve recession problem on my 300H
with a
fresh engine, the machine shop in Portland Oregon who put hgardened
seats
in my heads tried to convince me that I needed motorhome engine
heads
because they were cooled much better . I resistedbut have always
wondered
what THAT story was.
Mike Moore
300H
On Mar 2,
2015, at 1:08 PM, Robert Merritt okbobwynmer@xxxxxxxxx
[Chrysler300]
<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Caution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
413 Truck engines are not the same
as 413 car engines.
At least in the larger trucks, they have timing gears
instead of chain,
which means the cam and distributor turn backwards to car
engines, and there
are also oth er differences in push-rods, etc..
I
once knew a shop that tried to install a car short block in a 2-ton
farm
truck, and couldn't get it to run. I shared both a car and truck shop
manual
with them and we finally got it figured out.
I believe we ended
up using a set of adjustable push-rods and a car
distributor, but that has
been 20+ years ago, so I may be wrong.
It was just before harvest, and
the farmer having the work done was frantic
to get it going.
Bob
Merritt
North central Oklahoma
!965 barn-stored 300-L and parts
car
On Monday, March 2, 2015 12:04 PM, "John Nowosacki
jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx
[Chrysler300]"
<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think there were
also differences in the water pump/cooling/intake/heads
on the motor home
engines. The heads look like big block heads, but have
slanted spark plugs
like a 318 or 340.
Water pump housing on front of motor was different,
too. I used to have a
set of heads, but couldn't even give them away at
Carlisle.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 2, 2015, at 12:52 PM, 'Rick
Vitek' rpvitek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[Chrysler300]
<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/
<http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/motor/36.html>
motor/36.html will
provide you most of the info you are looking for.
Production of the RB
engines ceased in 1978 (I believe). 413's were made up
to the end for
truck/motorhome/industrial use. The first two digits of the
displacement
were used up to 1965 when three digits were used. So 41 suggests
a pre '65
413. But it should have a letter before the 41(3) to denote year
(see
webpage linked above). See also the block casting number to narrow down
year
range. The "E" after the number may refer to a cast
crankshaft.
Blocks should be the same internally. Heads used vary. Here
are some sample
numbers for later production 413's.
2899
913
60-71 413 Truck
2899 943
71-77 361 Truck /
413
Once you narrow down year/application you can look up spec's such
as
horsepower, cr, etc.
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of christopher
thelastbestgenius@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 7:09
AM
To:
Subject: [Chrysler300] 413 motor I/d help
Chrysler 300F and
Gs used 413s - very briefly, and maybe just offlist
replies back to me - how
similar were 413s used in motorhomes - re
good/same heads etc?
- and
until what year were 413s built/used in say motorhomes?
Were the motorhome
ones a much lower power/specs?!
The motor I am looking at apparently has
prefixe "E'" stamped after "41"
stamping on pad atop block, and has an alloy
case auto trans bolted up, but
trans still has handbrake on rear - alloy case
is all one piece like later
727 torqueflights. I am looking at putting it in
my '59 Dodge 2 dr - sump I
need to do that has deep rear, whereas the 413 has
the deep part of sump pan
at front where it will foul the xmember - do the
300F/G have deep rear or
deep front sumps?
Christopher in Australia
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