Re: IML: 413 block leak

[henry ford <fordsfairlane@xxxxxxxxx>]

when I was 18 yrs old ,I have seen this happen on a 318 before, the block had a hairline crack in it, and I was told that I could use the "jbweld" on it . but I didnt want to use a "home remedy". so I pulled the engine myself using a tree and a "come a long" hand winch to lift the engine out, only cost me $20 to buy the winch and a few hand tools, all bolts on the engine were standard bolts , no metric's .

I had unbolted the exhaust manifolds from the engine while it was still in the car, and I let them fall down to rest on the frame to alough the engine to clear them. once the engine was clear and me and my brother pushed the car out from under the tree, we then lowered the engine into the bed of my dads pickup. while lowering the engine it was leaning over to one side,  and I could see that there was what looked like a scratch between the freez plugs that ran the entire lenght of the block, once I saw this I new that there was no way JB WELD would have held up once the engine got upto normal operating temperature.

 

so basicaly I suggest that you go ahead and pull that engine and get it cleaned up real good and look for any scratches , it could be a crack dont risk it . make sure,( I have never heard of water leaking through a solid cast iron block before, unless it's cracked). it is impossible for water to pass through the pores , they are microscopic .

 if the block is cracked then you might be able to use the 440 block and as much of the original 413 parts , to help keep some originality to the car, I understand that most parts will interchange, just match up the bolt paterns.

hope this helps.

Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Kenyon,

 

The block leak is located between 2 freeze plugs on the driver's side. It looks as if a previous owner tried to replace one without removing the engine...its a bit bent. However both mechanics that have looked at it say the freeze plug is not the problem. Perhaps it is time for a 3rd opinion!

 

If it is cracked it really is not noticable as the second mechanic swears that it is not cracked and that the coolant is seeping thru pores in the block... The sealants that were tried were both internal to the cooling system. I seem to remember that one was called ceramic seal.

 

The engine and cooling system appear to be working very well...except of course for the leak!

 

Scott Scheuermann

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Kenyon Wills

To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:53 PM

Subject: Re: IML: 413 block leak

Your block is leaking for one of two reasons- the metal has failed metallurgially or a seal that keeps the water in has failed.

 

If the block is cracked, you're most likely looking at pulling and replaceing it UNLESS you're willing to do a little shade-tree monkey business and gamble a little bit. 

 

If so, you need to find out where the leak is.  It's probably a crack caused by overheating (??why did it crack?). There is a putty that comes in two parts called JB weld.  If you clean the area around the crack extensively and degrease it, you may be able to repair it by slapping that stuff on there.  It comes in two seperate tubes and is available over the counter at most reputable car parts places.

 

Wanna bet that it's somewhere that you can see but can't reach without pulling the engine?  You never know - you might get lucky.  Most mechanics won't touch this sort of thing with a 10-foot pole.  Cant make any promises and don't want to be held liable...

 

 

 

Second scenario:  Seal is bad.  The water pump, heads/head gaskets, and freeze plugs all hold the water in.  If one of them is compromised, your engine leaks.  Water pump and heads are usually easy to diagnose and repair.  You explicitly stated that the block is leaking.  Is it leaking from a crack (see above) or is it coming from one of those small circles that are pressed in?  The circles are metal caps that go into holes cast into the block.  Water freezing expands and can crack the block, so these are a failsafe device and under extreme cold conditions will allow the expanding freezing water to force them out, yeilding a repair bill but not a replacement bill. 

 

These can be slapped back in after removeal and re-sealed.  Generally you have to take the engine out, but sometimes you get lucky and can do it with the engine in.                 

 

First challenge for you is to decipher where the water loss is coming from (have you seen the crack?) and then to address it.

 

I see an engine removal in your future.  Hopefully you won't get to build up a new one.

 

 

The 440 is normally an almost direct replacement.  It is almost the same thign and most holes are the same.  Since I have not done a swap myself, I can't say if all of the accessories will fit the same or need adaptation.  A 440 is not, however, the 413.  Should you swap? Nobody will know but you and people that know how (and care to) count the number of bolts on your valve covers.  I personally like the feel of a 413, but that's splitting hairs - they are both effective engines, and dropping in a workable 440 might be an efficient path out of your plight.

 

 

Kenyon Wills

Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

A newby here, to the list and classic cars. I have a problem that I have never heard of before and I'm looking for some input. The car is a 65 Crown 4 door with a 413. It leaks coolant from the block. Coolant and oil are not mixing. One mechanic looked at it briefly and said that the block was cracked. Another took a lot more time and said that it is actually seeping through the block. He tried a couple of different sealants that were "guaranteed" to work...and of course did not! He believes that the engine was previously rebuilt and it runs great. So where to go from here without breaking the bank? 413's are not to be found locally. I understand that a 440 may be a suitable engine, but not original. I hate to start changing things on a car that appears to be original with the sole exception of the paint. It is tempting to do nothing, but my hope for the car is to tow my '60 Airstream travel trailer (#5000) and I don't want the engine blowing on me! I am not going for a show quality car here...a "20 footer" would be good enough for me as long as the mechanicals can handle the extra rigors of towing.

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