where's the wheelbase difference? (Long and boring)

["Bill Watson" <wwatson@xxxxxxxxx>]

If you checked the parts book you would see the 1967-73 Imperials used the
same floor pans as the Chrysler.  The front stubs are different.  Also, the
differences between the Fury, Polara/Monaco and Chrysler are in the centre
to rear floor pan extension - just ahead of the rear seat.  The same place
the differences between Valiant and Dart, when their wheelbases differed.
Also, the Fury and Polara/Monaco models used the same torsion bars, while
the Chrysler and Imperial both used unique bars.

>From the 1972 parts catalogue :

Front floor pan (toe board to rear extension) : 23-32-22
   Fury : 3570 436
   Polara/Monaco : 3570 436
   Chrysler : 3570 436
   Imperial : 3570 436

Centre floor pan (rear seat) : 23-32-24
   Fury : 3445 441  (wagon - 3440 860)
   Polara/Monaco : 3445 441 (wagon - 3440 860)
   Chrysler : 3445 441 (wagon - 3440 860)
   Imperial : 3445 441

Centre floor extension (between front and centre sections) : 23-32-25
   Fury (except wagon) : R - 2902 890 / L - 2481 401
   Fury wagon  : R - 2902 892 / L - 2481 813
   Polara/Monaco : R - 2902 892 / L - 2481 813
   Chrysler (except wagon) : R - 2900 846 / L - 2481 403
   Chrysler wagon  : R - 2902 892 / L - 2481 813
   Imperial : R - 2900 846 / L - 2481 403

Rear floor pan (trunk) : 23-32-48
   Fury : 2900 783
   Polara/Monaco : 2900 783
   Chrysler : 2900 783
   Imperial : 2900 783
NOTE : All wagons used 2481 824

Now, for the front stub (frame) : 13-01-1
   Fury 6 : 3611 353
   Fury V8 : 3611 352
   Polara 6 : 3611 353
   Polara/Monaco : 3611 352
   Chrysler : 3611 351
   Imperial : 3583 196

Crossmember #1 : 13-11-5 :
   Fury : 2493 925
   Polara/Monaco : 2493 925
   Chrysler : 2493 925
   Imperial : 2534 056

Crossmember #2 : 13-11-5 :
   Fury 6 : 2934 938
   Fury V8 : 2934 936
   Polara 6 : 2934 938
   Polara/Monaco : 2934 936
   Chrysler : 2934 936
   Imperial : 3583 199

Crossmember - Rear anchor : 13-11-5 :
   Fury : none
   Polara/Monaco : none
   Chrysler :  none
   Imperial : 2071 507
(NOTE : rear anchor on all but Imperial is two piece and part of stub frame,
and not catalogued as separate pieces.

Crossmember Transmision mounting : 13-10-1
   Fury : 2925 299
   Polara/Monaco : 2925 299
   Chrysler : 2925 299
   Imperial : 2925 299

I do not know where your information came from for the exhaust manifolds, as
the 1972 C body cars use the same exhaust manifolds for all four car lines.
The 400 and 440 use the same manifolds across the board.

For the exhaust system, Chrysler pipes came in four sections :

1) Exhaust pipe : Manifold to extension: 11-05-1
    440 V8 : All  - 3466 633 (early) or 3583 980 (late)

2) Extension pipe : Exhaust to muffler: 11-05-4
   440 V8 : Fury except wagon : 3583 821
   440 V8 : Fury wagon : 3466 252
   440 V8 : Polara / Monaco : all : 3466 252
   440 V8 : Chrysler except wagon : 3466 638
   440 V8 : Chrysler wagon : 3466 252
   440 V8 : Imperial : 3583 750

3) Muffler : 11-01-1
    440 V8 - All : 3466 644 (Al) or 3466 645 (Zinc)

4) Tail pipe : Muffler to rear bumper : 11-09-3
   440 V8 - All -  3466 956

I believe it is very obvious the differences in length from Fury to Chrysler
are in the body while the Imperial is in the front stub.   Remember, all C
body wagons were on the Dodge 122" wheelbase.   Thus the Chrysler wagon used
the wagon body with the Chrysler stub and still had a 122" wheelbase.

As for the interior dimensions, there is not much difference from Chrysler
to Imperial.  You can also tell that Fury and Polara/Monaco shared
rooflines, as did Chrysler and Imperial :

Leg room = Front / Rear (4-door hardtop) :
   Fury : 41.8" / 38.0"
   Polara / Monaco : 41.8" / 39.1"
   Chrysler : 41.8" / 41.5"
   Imperial  : 41.9" / 41.2"
(FYI : all 2-door harrdtops, except Fury formal hardtop, have rear legroom
of 35.2")

Head room = Front / Rear (4-door hardtop) :
   Fury : 38.0" / 37.2"
   Polara / Monaco : 38.0" / 37.2"
   Chrysler : 38.1" / 37.0"
   Imperial  : 38.3" / 37.0"

Hip room = Front / Rear (4-door hardtop) :
   Fury : 63.2" / 63.4"
   Polara / Monaco : 63.2" / 63.4"
   Chrysler : 63.3" / 63.3"
   Imperial  : 63.1" / 63.1"

Seat height  (front / rear - 4-door hatrdtop) :
   Fury : 9.2" / 11.6"
   Polara / Monaco : 9.2" / 11.5"
   Chrysler : 9.2" / 11.5"
   Imperial  : 9.0" / 11.5"

Again, the Imperial has more legroom than either the Fury or Polara /
Monaco, but actually has LESS legroom than the Chrysler.  You can see the
increments from Fury to Polara / Monaco to Chrysler as the wheelbase
increases.  But the Imperial has no more legroom than the Chrysler - because
the floorpans are the same.  The decrease is due to the increased padding on
the Imperial seats.  The increase in Imperial front headroom (0.2") is
undoutedly due to the lower front seat (0.2").

Sorry, but the Imperial's increase in wheelbase over the Chrysler is all in
the front stub.  From the firewall to the rear end of the main trunk floor,
it is all Chrysler.

Bill
Vancouver, BC


----- Original Message ----- 
From: W Bell
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:17 PM
Subject: IML: where's the wheelbase difference?


With all due respect, I believe that if you check the vehicle architecture
between a Chrysler and Imperial in the '67-'73 time frame, you'll discover
that the added wheelbase results in added rear seat leg room, meaning the
floorpan stampings behind the front seat is where the wheelbase is
compensated for, not in the front subframe/body area as mentioned.  When
looking at exhaust items for C-body Chryslers, that's when I determined this
was what was going on as the front exhaust manifold lead pipes were all the
same between Plymouth Fury, Dodge Polara, Chrysler Newport/300/New Yorker
yet the pipes between the ball joint connection and the muffler were all
different.  Only reason for them to be different is the wheelbase difference
between those cars (119", 122", 124").

Imperial bodies were longer in front of the front wheels and aft of the rear
wheels, but that's just sheet metal hanging on the basic structure.  One
area that might affect the Imperials of the '67 era would be the isolated
engine mounting structure that was unique to Imperials only that might
affect some of the routing of the trans cooler lines.  Where the engine and
trans are would be the same regardless of the wheelbase and should have the
same relationship to the cowl/firewall.  If, as I mentioned, the fan shroud
on the Imperial is longer than on the regular Chrysler C-body cars, that
would mean the core support is farther forward on the Imperials, which has
no relationship to the wheelbase specification.

Just some thoughts,
W Bell